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I don't understand the hate for Jordan Peterson

I kind of wrote this spur of the moment so its not as eloquent or informative as I'd like it to be.

I've been listening to his podcasts a lot lately. I suspect all of the hate and bitterness towards him is due atleast in part rumor and gossip. Because if you actually took the time to listen to even one lecture, you would see he's quite intelligent, sympathetic, educated, logical, and informative. Especially towards those of whom struggle to cope with life and its many catastrophes. He is surely not a fascist or marxist like many claim. I gather many suspect that he is because he sometimes utilizes stories and quotes from well know fascist or marxist propaganda. You don't have to like him or even agree but I must infer anyone that demonizes him is incredibly naive and brainwashed by left wing ideology and is essentially an enemy to morality, common sense, and good will.

After listening to him for hours I have come to the conclusion that he is a man of reason. He believes in deriving knowledge and wisdom from every avenue possible. He believes that everything is a potential tool for us to improve upon ourselves and our society. Maybe not necessarily deriving wisdom from said sources but using them as a resource nonetheless to get a better perspective on the human psyche. He has even mentioned many times that is not only wise but healthy to derive information from people you probably wouldn't otherwise get along with. If you continue to converse only with people who share the same agenda as you, the same thoughts and opinions, then you will never learn anything of value. He teaches people to broaden their horizons and broaden their minds, encompass everything in their path as a means of attaining wisdom, understanding, and knowledge.

Jordan is not a christian but he's also not not a christian if that makes sense. His system of thinking about such things as the afterlife, God, Jesus, etc go much much further. In my opinion, as far as I can tell, he takes an agnostic approach. I try not to infer too much about the nature of his character or what he believes in. I would hate to label him as something he is not. Regardless of his stance on the belief in God, he often quotes stories from the Bible especially from Genesis and Exodus. He believes it is an invaluable tool at the very least in teaching and instilling morality and wisdom.

I have been listening to him for about a week now and he has inspired me to look at my life and life in general from a new perspective and really figure out what it is I'm doing with my life and what I want out of it. He has given me many guidelines for discovering my purpose in life and finding meaning in it. So say what you will about him, this is the kick in the pants I needed. I have been searching for years upon years looking for answers to my questions and he is the closest to answering all of them. I understand that many of questions probably cannot be answered but at the very least he has given me hints in which I should direct my attention towards.
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ArishMell · 70-79, M
Why is he hated?

I had not heard of him, read the ensuing thread here, did a little research to learn he is a clinical psychologist and author...

So why is he "hated"?

Perhaps because he is one of those many people slammed for having the courage to express his opinions on difficult matters others want controlled or silenced?

Opinions his detractors do not want to hear or read, let alone want anyone else to think or discuss? Are these detractors willing or able to learn what people really say or write for themselves, think about it, then decide their own views constructively and without mere abuse or inventing spurious "Left/Right" political propaganda from them?



I respect JestAJester's own reaction to Dr. Peterson's views because he (JAJ) has clearly described his reaction having constructively listened to the lectures. He also has the honesty to admit his own misunderstandings or doubts, such being unclear of the doctor's religious belief. (Using Bible stories to illustrate points about humanity does not itself state belief in God, but may imply it.)

I have not heard Dr. Peterson's lectures nor read his books, so I do not know if would agree or disagree with his ideas.

Nor would I decide by what others want me to think he believes.

So perhaos it needs those who "hate" Dr Peterson to state, clearly, honestly, constructively and politely; firstly if they "hate" him or simply disagree with his ideas, and if so, why.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@JestAJester You do not lack understanding and education.Your answer there shows that.

What counts is understanding a point of view before agreeing or disagreeing with it.

Sadly "social[?]-media" seems just so full of people who disagree with things but are too lazy to think about it, so they just sink into abuse instead of constructive criticism.
JestAJester · 31-35, M
@ArishMell i believe that in order to learn you must accept to some degree you don't know as much as you think you do and you're able to accept being wrong, possibly even embarassed by it. I do appreciate that
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@JestAJester Thankyou - yes, I agree entirely.
JollyRoger · 70-79, M
First and foremost (I'm not disagreeing with you), people in general don't 'hate' Jordan, but they do think about what he says and often disagree with what he proposes as 'fact.' When a person (an influencer) has a stump to stand on they (often times) push people toward their way of thinking (President Trump and his cohort are another example). If you truly are a 'free-thinking' person who has your own set of values, it's disconcerting to have someone shouting their point of view at you when you see how it influences others to move toward a certain path that you don't want to enter. And the 'hatred' that comes out is your realization that you don't have the same level of influence to assert your point of view to counteract it - you feel a helplessness against that 'tide'. Thus, you 'bad-mouth' that person. So 'hate' is an emotion that we use too often to explain our distrust and aggravation at someone trying to push against our own thoughts.
JestAJester · 31-35, M
@JollyRoger Well when people dog on him, its usually along the lines of name calling or baseless accusations. But yes I do agree that he has a tendency to presume his propositions are fact and hes a bit not narcisstic necessarily but a bit high on himself or atleast thats how I interpret it. I'm not saying he's without faults.
Renkon · M
There are two kinds of people. The first have clear, unique perspectives and the courage to stand by their beliefs. They think deeply, speak with conviction, and lead with purposes.

The second kind avoid strong opinions. They prefer to agree, blend in, and fear criticism or new ideas.

The first are few—and often disliked by the second for challenging the status quo. But it’s the first kind who drive change, spark ideas, and shape the future.

Jordan is one of them. He’s sharp, confident, and unafraid. Naturally, the second kind dislike him. That’s a sign he’s doing something right.
DestroyerOfIdeologies · 26-30, M
I thought it was mostly the Marxist and leftist who hated him. He's being labeled as one of them now? I thought he made a song where he attacked leftist philosophers.

I don't really know much about him though.
JestAJester · 31-35, M
@DestroyerOfIdeologies Well that's what I'm saying. They say baseless remarks and assumptions about him that I have to assume are the result of influence of liberal ideology or simply from others bad mouthing him.
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Torsten · 36-40, M
@JestAJester that could be the case for anyone though. They seem very intelligent the less you see of them but when you see a lot more of them, hou start to see they are wrong a good amount of the time also.

He is intelligent for sure in certain departments but no so much in others
JestAJester · 31-35, M
@Torsten And I've noticed he does atleast possess some humility because some of the questions he has been asked he answered in the context of "Well I don't really know how to answer that but I'll take a shot at it."
Torsten · 36-40, M
@JestAJester yeah that is true. Dont see many people in his situation doing that
He's a misogynist and a part of the toxic patriarchy that's destroying you, your true self and your actual feelings, all of your connections and views with beings that don't have the same genitals like yourself and adding to the demise and further separation from men like him and his followers and everyone else. But maybe that's what you're actually looking for. Life in misery.
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@JestAJester You assuming what I do is first layer of your blindness. You thinking what he's preaching is masculinity is another layer. You thinking that he's not a misogynistic man is a third layer of your blindness. Onions have less layers than your intentional blindness.

When you use belonging to create separation, you are missing out on gifts that other human beings might be able to share. The desire to belong in a group with similar thoughts creates drive and purpose and it's exactly what you're feeling towards that clan leader. The irony is that fundamentally we all belong to the human race.

I invite you to listen to the opposite of whatever you're idolizing. Listen, but listen with intention to listen and not to rebuttle.

P.S.if you don't find anything misogynistic in what he's saying, that says tons about you and how deep you're in.

FYI, it will only further extend your misery, not heal you, because he's talking about separation and not inclusion. Separate from what's innate in you instead of embrace, accept and learn to manage/feel/act etc

And it's okay to use whatever we have at hand and move on with the growth. I know men pressure men to stay in the same vicious cycles, but I'm telling you (and healed men too) that you don't need to "battle", "conquer", "dominate" anything or anyone to feel that void inside your chest. The only one that can fill it is you, knowledge and empathy. It's okay to be scared.

Btw, it's very unlike me to respond at all to your cult follower type, I guess you're lucky tonight.
JestAJester · 31-35, M
@greensnacks Not in a cult. In fact theres a big reason why I left religion, because I felt it was cultish and everyone was just strung along with the same mentality. No independent thinkers, just a bunch of sheep. In fact I am not misogynistic, I know I have plenty of faults and hopefully aware of all of them if not most of them and I am working to fix them. I would argue I have fixed many of them. I assume your first comment was in relation to my last comment. That was not intended to be an attack, its just a common occurrence. Its easy for us to judge someone based on a clip we saw of them and often the clip is either edited or cut short so we don't get the whole story.

I haven't really touched on his lectures of masculinity much but what I have touched on is his message for men. I think its on youtube, try "Jordan Petersen monster" and im just paraphrasing but essentially he teaches that a man should become a monster. Not in the literal sense and not in the sense of becoming a destructive and terrible person that is detrimental to society. But becoming a strong individual that faces adversity head on with an iron will. He says its ok to be afraid and in fact its necessary. You will never not be afraid but you can become courageous. And the more and more you face adversity and the sooner you face it, the stronger and more courageous you will become. If thats not good advice then I don't know what is. Why would a bad man say this? Why would such a scummy person teach something so fulfilling and impactful? Sure he has faults, in fact as I listen to him more and more I am becoming aware of them. But I myself am human guilty of many mistakes. You can not expect anyone to be infallible. No human is.

I'm not sure what you mean by seperation or atleast separation from others humans because he says the exact opposite. In fact he preaches that it is necessary to converse with your fellow humans who don't necessarily share your same beliefs. In one of his podcasts he actually says if you continually only converse with those who share the same thoughts and opinions as you do, you'll never learn anything. I believe it was that same podcast he said that you need to converse with different opinions even if it annoys you. So that particular accusation was founded either in misunderstanding or warped interpretation.

Also rebuttle is necessary. Its called a conversation. And just as Jordan said, I am conversing with someone who has a differing opinion that I meaning you as a means to learn and understand. Rebuttles are necessary for conversation and learning.

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'men pressure men to stay in the same vicious cycles'. But the following sentence is also something he preaches. Its sounds to me you and him think alike but for whatever reason there is some sort of misunderstanding or misinterpretation.

I'm not sure what you're so angry about and I don't understand why its directed at me seeing how I've never done anything to you personally. But that last comment, that was definitely a bit narcissitic like I should be thankful. I'm thankful to have conversation with anyone at this point.

See the reason I posted this was to open up an avenue of discussion. I want to talk to people. I don't get to in my day to day life. And Jordan is only one of many different people I like and admire. Because they are answering questions or solving problems that no one else has before. That doesn't necessarily I believe everything they say or worship a golden idol of them in my bedroom. Some people need role models and I had never had one before. I like Trump for example but there are some things I don't like that he does. I like Candance Owens, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Richard Dawkins, etc. They have a lot to offer.

And lastly, as a man who has been struggling with depression, anxiety, and existential crisis, forgive me for searching for discussion and answers to questions I've held on to for the last 14 years. Civility is not my strong suit but I am making an attempt.
Magenta · F
I don't hate him, but he annoys and irritates something in me the instant I see him and hear his voice.
basilfawlty89 · 36-40, M
@Magenta sounds like Kermit, don't he?
JestAJester · 31-35, M
@Magenta I can understand that. There are plenty of things about his lectures and his methods I don't like.
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AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
It’s never the man . It’s the ideas.
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AthrillatheHunt · 51-55, M
@basilfawlty89 I kinda like me a good lobster roll NGL lol
leotheromeo · 36-40, M
In a world where people prefer to live in fantasy and delusion, someone who speaks truth logically will be the enemy.
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JestAJester · 31-35, M
@TheOneyouwerewarnedabout lol i wont lie he is very long winded and he has a tendency to go off on random tangents. He is hard to follow but i still like to listen. But i have to take his lectures in small spurts. Its alot to take in and his long winded speeches sometimes give me a headache lol
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JestAJester · 31-35, M
@Rolexeo Can you provide an example of the censorship thing? And honestly bud, for some people, belief in God is not that straightforward. I could potentially give you some examples to explain my position on the matter if you would like. Cause I myself struggle with this every day.
Rolexeo · 26-30, M
@JestAJester If you're not sure you're agnostic, which is a reasonable answer. But he wont affirm that either. It seems he's an atheist but he knows his fans mostly consist of Christians so he wont just come out and say it cause he'll receive backlash.

He demands Twitter censor people that are "anonymous trolls" on the grounds that they're nazis according to him.
JestAJester · 31-35, M
@Rolexeo hmm i will have to look at up. And yes i consider myself agnostic. Its the best label i can think of because we all love our labels. Yah that was one thing that bugged me about him. Hes not clear and concise about his position on the matter. In fact I was watching a debate between him and Matt Dillahunty whom I've never heard of before today. Matt kept repeating the question and Jordan just danced around it. So yah hes not perfect, hes got a few faults but still i like what he has to say on other matters
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JestAJester · 31-35, M
@Skinnygingesarah Show me a skit where he shows contempt for them and I will believe you.

 
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