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Luckylu · 61-69, F
@Ontheroad Good for you! I only had a couple managers in my lifetime who fought for me, to either get raises or to protect me from being laid off. My last manager in that position when he retired and a new person was promoted. They promoted someone who had no experience as a manager, and I was laid off. I had a 13 year old to take care of and no other source of income. The worst period in my life.
Ontheroad · M
@Luckylu That's something I faced for many years. I was an area manager for long-term care facilities with about a 95% female workforce. Many of the employees were single parents and not long after I was hired, I began to notice a trend when I reviewed annual performance evaluations.
Since I was constantly visiting the facilities I got to know the people, and I was able to connect the highly rated (on paper) employees to faces.
So, wondering why some were rated higher than others doing similar jobs, I started reviewing their work history, how long they had been with the company, education, training, etc., and of course since I was looking at their files, I saw who was single, a single parent, married, etc.
After doing this for a few months it hit me that 1. Education meant almost nothing as far as work performance went, and 2., Many of the higher-rated employees were single mothers.
After more talking and watching, I realized that single-parent mothers (by-in-large) were rated highly because they worked harder than most of their married or single with no kids coworkers. It was just that simple. They had children to support and they were damn well going to do the best they could to provide for their children.
The realization that education had little to do with performance didn't come to me until one of the employees who came to talk to me during one of my "Open Door" days, said she was being penalized for not having a college degree.
That's when I started forgetting about education as a deciding factor for promotions and pay raises that I wanted or had to approve, There were some positions that required degrees, but other than those, I totally ignored education levels.
I also, without ever saying or documenting it, pushed just that little bit more for single parents when it came time for promotions and/or pay raises. I was careful not to let it be known (corporate would have had my head), but all else equal, the single parent always got my recommendation or approval for the promotion and /or pay raise.
Since I was constantly visiting the facilities I got to know the people, and I was able to connect the highly rated (on paper) employees to faces.
So, wondering why some were rated higher than others doing similar jobs, I started reviewing their work history, how long they had been with the company, education, training, etc., and of course since I was looking at their files, I saw who was single, a single parent, married, etc.
After doing this for a few months it hit me that 1. Education meant almost nothing as far as work performance went, and 2., Many of the higher-rated employees were single mothers.
After more talking and watching, I realized that single-parent mothers (by-in-large) were rated highly because they worked harder than most of their married or single with no kids coworkers. It was just that simple. They had children to support and they were damn well going to do the best they could to provide for their children.
The realization that education had little to do with performance didn't come to me until one of the employees who came to talk to me during one of my "Open Door" days, said she was being penalized for not having a college degree.
That's when I started forgetting about education as a deciding factor for promotions and pay raises that I wanted or had to approve, There were some positions that required degrees, but other than those, I totally ignored education levels.
I also, without ever saying or documenting it, pushed just that little bit more for single parents when it came time for promotions and/or pay raises. I was careful not to let it be known (corporate would have had my head), but all else equal, the single parent always got my recommendation or approval for the promotion and /or pay raise.
Luckylu · 61-69, F
@Ontheroad I currently work with single men and women and I have to bite my tongue as I witness the difference in their commitment to hard work. I end up doing the heavy lifting and I’m the oldest there.
I want to commend you on the person you are and worked hard at being. Your insight and determination to do what is fair. There aren’t many like you in the corporate world where I work.
In a recent situation I was yelled at and falsely accused by a manager in another department all while in front of my current manager who stood by and did nothing. As far as I know he did not report her actions to upper management either when I pushed him to do so. I’m working on getting the hell out of there as soon as possible.
I want to commend you on the person you are and worked hard at being. Your insight and determination to do what is fair. There aren’t many like you in the corporate world where I work.
In a recent situation I was yelled at and falsely accused by a manager in another department all while in front of my current manager who stood by and did nothing. As far as I know he did not report her actions to upper management either when I pushed him to do so. I’m working on getting the hell out of there as soon as possible.
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@Ontheroad I think since covid there are lots of accepted norms coming to light that are suddenly being questioned by huge swathes of the population.
Wages; pensions; holiday/vacation days acceptable for the modern world we live in.
Employers have seriously taken advantage for far too long and people are starting to let them know
Wages; pensions; holiday/vacation days acceptable for the modern world we live in.
Employers have seriously taken advantage for far too long and people are starting to let them know
CrazyMusicLover · 31-35
Livingwell · 61-69, M
Men do have an advantage in many traditional jobs from a pay and advancement perspective. In high tech, the difference is much less, sometimes exceeding men's pay and opportunities. The companies invest heavily in programs to attract women. I'm not sure the results justified the expense of the programs costing hundreds of millions.
CrazyMusicLover · 31-35
@MorriganoftheNight Not entirely, there are still these "long hair" "neckbeard" stereotypes. I guess some types would have a hard time getting hired into corporate positions if they didn't adopt a certain look first but women tend to be judged on looks far more. Especially in politics. I'm not sure if I ever heard someone asking what is a male politician wearing and judging their competence according their fashion choices. 🙄
Also there are many positions where women's look is the part of the PR of the company. Just like a nice wrapping.
Also there are many positions where women's look is the part of the PR of the company. Just like a nice wrapping.
OogieBoogie · F
In general, yeah. Specifically, no.
Culture, physiology, social 'training and expectation', and the fact that we need time off to bear children ....all have a HUGE impact on our ability to develop careers.
In fact we have to buck norms, learn harder, give up motherhood, and become 'emotionally like men are socially trained to be', to even come close to the benchmark of equality, (generally speaking).
But then ....we need to consider that this is what men have given up and been 'socially trained' to conform to as well: breadwinners before Father's and partners.
Yes, women have it harder in general. We have had less historical time to condition ourselves to the brutal machine of 'jobwinner and moneymaker'.
Men have been at it for Sooooo much longer .
They have their power base.
But at what cost ?
Not knowing their kids 🤷
Never really winding down to just 'be'.🤷
Losing g the ability to connect with their partner🤷....all work and worry .
Yeah men prolly have it over women on the job front ....but women have it over men in connecting with life, their children, inner peace .
We are still far from equality .
Too often we define it by our income .
I wish we would start defining it by heart ...by human connection, by grace, by peace.
The question is ....should we allow this social structure to define our success by our job?
Is it truly a win if you earn a six figure sum, drive the lastest SUV, but never jump in puddle with your kids, stop to awe at a raindrop on a leaf projecting prisms, or make true spiritual love to your partner ?
Is THAT success ?
Is that a life well lived?
Is that what you'll reminisce before you die ?
Culture, physiology, social 'training and expectation', and the fact that we need time off to bear children ....all have a HUGE impact on our ability to develop careers.
In fact we have to buck norms, learn harder, give up motherhood, and become 'emotionally like men are socially trained to be', to even come close to the benchmark of equality, (generally speaking).
But then ....we need to consider that this is what men have given up and been 'socially trained' to conform to as well: breadwinners before Father's and partners.
Yes, women have it harder in general. We have had less historical time to condition ourselves to the brutal machine of 'jobwinner and moneymaker'.
Men have been at it for Sooooo much longer .
They have their power base.
But at what cost ?
Not knowing their kids 🤷
Never really winding down to just 'be'.🤷
Losing g the ability to connect with their partner🤷....all work and worry .
Yeah men prolly have it over women on the job front ....but women have it over men in connecting with life, their children, inner peace .
We are still far from equality .
Too often we define it by our income .
I wish we would start defining it by heart ...by human connection, by grace, by peace.
The question is ....should we allow this social structure to define our success by our job?
Is it truly a win if you earn a six figure sum, drive the lastest SUV, but never jump in puddle with your kids, stop to awe at a raindrop on a leaf projecting prisms, or make true spiritual love to your partner ?
Is THAT success ?
Is that a life well lived?
Is that what you'll reminisce before you die ?
SteelHands · 61-69, M
Maturity matters more than sex I think. As although mostly in past times men kept their work life separated from their non work life, it's not that common today.
Drama and other personal life involvements at work can sure screw up a person's life. But there it is. It's very common these days.
Drama and other personal life involvements at work can sure screw up a person's life. But there it is. It's very common these days.
SW-User
I couldn't speak for others. When I worked in traditionally men's jobs though, I got a rough time.
Other than that I've never really noticed a difference. I've never worked in the corporate world though.
Other than that I've never really noticed a difference. I've never worked in the corporate world though.
caPnAhab · 26-30, M
Guess it depends on your workplace? As far as I can tell, I don't have an advantage in my workplace (restaurant). And I'm outnumbered about 10 to 1 anyway
I imagine men in an office job would have an advantage? I don't know
I imagine men in an office job would have an advantage? I don't know
StanleyStark · 80-89, M
That all depends on what they are doing in the workplace.
JimboSaturn · 56-60, M
In my workplace no, but in some workplaces, yes.
dontbekoi · 36-40, F
100% agree.
Queendragonfly · 31-35, F
When it comes to salary, men gets more paid for having a penis. That is sick and that it's still allowed 2023 is beyond me..
There's still that fantasy that women do sex services to their bosses to get more paid. But in reality, we are sexually harassed and threatened to do sexual services because men in charge are oftentimes predators.
There's still that fantasy that women do sex services to their bosses to get more paid. But in reality, we are sexually harassed and threatened to do sexual services because men in charge are oftentimes predators.
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bijouxbroussard · F
They certainly did when I was in the workplace. There are now laws to try and make things more equitable, but the "old boys network" culture, especially in the corporate world, dies hard.
Yep, I got it easier. On the first day, I showed up, plopped my dick on the conference table and got more money. It was great. On the second day, I tried it again, they told me not to push my luck.