If you came from nothing and return to nothing when you die why do you want to debate?

@MiraRoss So what was before the nebula? We were discussing the universe not the earth. The nebula and the earth are part of the universe.

@hippyjoe1955 before the universe was the milky way

@MiraRoss The milky way is part of the universe too.

@hippyjoe1955 Spacetime became possible only with expansion, so when discussing the universe it’s completely meaningless to talk of ‘before expansion’

It’s like asking which way is north when you’re standing at the North Pole

@newjaninev2 And such expansion began why again?

@hippyjoe1955 some theories say that it could of been for a older planet beyond a black hole or something that came from a white hole, but they don't know for sure, there is really no way to know

@MiraRoss What theories are those? What I am pointing out is that there is insufficient causation in materialism for material to exist. It is evident the material has a beginning. What caused the beginning.

@hippyjoe1955 if you've done your research you should know what I said. Dust, particuls, gases who knows what started it all. No one will ever know

@MiraRoss I have done more research than you obviously. You can not point to matter and explain its existence using matter. It simply doesn't work. Matter has a starting point. What was before that starting point. You can't say before matter was matter.

@hippyjoe1955 I've been interested in the making of the earth since I was young. And if you read what I put slowly I said who knows what started it all. No one will ever know

@MiraRoss I guess you don't understand that what comes before matter since matter has a beginning makes a difference. I don't care what you are interested in. Your point is not valid because you point to the result and claim it for the cause.

@hippyjoe1955 wow you really do like the last word. Who says it was matter that made everything....? Could be something else before that

@MiraRoss You did. You said a white hole caused matter. A white hole is matter.

@hippyjoe1955 I've never said the word matter....

@MiraRoss We know who started it! God did! He told Moses to write it down and God also said that Jesus created everything in John 1. If Nebula was before earth then God created that before the earth!

@hippyjoe1955 I said this before, I don't see where it says matter....

some theories say that it could of been for a older planet beyond a black hole or something that came from a white hole, but they don't know for sure, there is really no way to know

@Carazaa really? And what made him?

@MiraRoss
God tells us that everything we see is created and temporal and what we don’t see is eternal!

@MiraRoss What is an older planet if not matter? Do you know the scientific definition of matter? It would seem as though you don't so I will give you a quick definition from google

[quote]In science, matter is the term for any type of material. Matter is anything that has mass and takes up space. At a minimum, matter requires at least one subatomic particle, although most matter consists of atoms. e[/quote]

@hippyjoe1955 I know what matter is and is made off noneed to search it for me. You don't even know it. You had to look it up?

@MiraRoss
God explains that he is the Great IAM He is a spirit! Spirit is not matter and no one made him, He is eternal! Our brains can’t understand this so don’t ever try! We have to take his word for that! But obviously He made the world because like a nice meal served infront of you it didn’t make itself! This is self evident and does not need proof to the logical brain!

@MiraRoss Actually I have a lot more science behind me than you do. I used to do scientific research and I love to read about scientific discoveries. That being said you aren't helping your case here. You want to explain how an 'older planet' begets a universe?

@hippyjoe1955 so your older and may know what I know. I too also love scientific discoverys. ID I never said it did happen. I only saying what I've read up on. If a planet is destroyed what is left of it is floating about is it not? Maybe they came together again... Is this not possible? How was all the planets we have today made they didn't just appear and you know that

@MiraRoss Not sure you have been reading scientific journals if that is your pet theory. It doesn't even make sense. The Big Bang has a certain logic to it but it is sorely lacking too. There is no reason for singularity to go 'bang'.

@hippyjoe1955 it's not my theories at all but. Stephen hawking's is a joke..? One of who I've read lots on to name one