LGBTQ #Pride [I Am A Part Of The Lgbtqq Community]

@SW-User But it does go beyond that. The opposite of pride is [b]shame[/b] and no one is generally made to feel shame about being heterosexual. So [b]pride[/b] is involved.

@bijouxbroussard In my opinion pride over things we had no part in is questionable. It's like bragging about the accomplishments of an ancestor. If I take no pride in my being straight why should a gay person take pride in being gay?

@SW-User But it’s not about you (or me). Others [b]have been[/b] proud of being straight, and moreover they’ve traditionally tried to shame those who are gay. So for those who do see it as an issue of pride in being able to be themselves, that’s [b]their[/b] right to claim. No one can take it away.

@bijouxbroussard The right word is 'unashamed'. It's bad to feel either proud or ashamed of one's sexual orientation.

@SW-User Here (San Francisco) people have been using the term for the celebrations in June as simply “Pride” and everyone knows what is meant. It’s unlikely to change just based on semantics.

@bijouxbroussard That much is true. Still, 'pride' can be seen as more injurious than helpful. It makes them sound stupid on top of being gay. My idea is 'gay okay' as their new slogan.

@SW-User The only people who seem to be inflamed by it here are those who still see gayness as shameful. 🙁

@bijouxbroussard Well, I tried to help their cause. That's a lot more than anyone else did.

@SW-User I get it, but treating folks like human beings and not discriminating against them doesn’t come with the privilege of telling them how they should define themselves.

@bijouxbroussard All that matters is the aim, and if helpful advice is unwanted then screw them.

@SW-User Do the gay people you know see that as helpful advice ? 🤔

@bijouxbroussard I don't know any. I was stalked by one, but still support their cause for equal treatment. I think that's fair.

Ah, I see.

@bijouxbroussard I actually largely agree with him. It's not: shame or pride, it's not a binairy. I think it's way more important to bring the concept into "the norm", by treating it as "neutral".

@Kwek00 So you claim the right to define someone else’s experience, too ?

@bijouxbroussard If that is the angle you want to take on the comment I just made. Then my point went over your head.

@Kwek00 My initial point clearly went over yours. 🙁

@SW-User I agree with you, specially since their pride been looking like a humiliation towards others

plus Pride is the opposite of normalizing an idea

@Nanori [quote]their pride been looking like a humiliation towards others[/quote]

How so?

@bijouxbroussard
[quote]The opposite of pride is shame and no one is generally made to feel shame about being heterosexual. So pride is involved.[/quote]

It's not a vodka orange. When you have too much Vodka, you can put a bit more orange juice in there to even things out. It's a binairy, 2 components.

When someone feel ashamed, as nightly points out, the importance is to get a state where people are "unashasmed". Or feel neutral. Pride is another step, and I honestly also think it's not a nescessasity to be "proud" about who you are feeling sexually attracted too. Espescially for a person like me, that kinda believes that what sex you are attracted too is largely inate to your person. It's not a choice, it's not something you have to work for, it's not an accomplishment, it just is. Like your favourite flavours and favourite colours. Being proud for something that just is, is kinda weird. Just like shaming you for something you can't choose, is really weird.

@SW-User some of them I've seen talk as if they're better and more woke than others

@Nanori @Kwek00 I understand, although that's too bad as pride shouldn't be about feeling better than others. That's often where it leads (whether it's pride in an accomplishment or not). When someone says they're proud to be American, that often leads to believing that America is better than other countries. To me it's about being confident in who you are and refusing to be put down, not feeling that you're better than others.

@SW-User I'm all for that. I'm just commenting on the use on the word "pride" which I've always found a really bad slogan for activism. Because it's over the top and creates a reaction about who's better, which I believe hurts the goal more then it helps. Because it's exactly this portion of reactionairies that you want to turn as much as possible. Those people that are on the fence, they'll eventually jump annyway. But those that are more reluctant, you actively push away by applying this term.

And I'm also reacting to this idea that pops up every now a then, that when someone is ashamed you just add a bit of pride, shake it up serve it with some ice cubes and a straw, and that will just make everything better. As if it even makes sense.

@Kwek00 [quote]But those that are more reluctant, you actively push away by applying this term.[/quote]

I suppose, but I've come to realize that activism that appeals to the people who are just looking for an excuse to be homophobic/racist/prejudiced is no good. It's like in other forms of activism we're always told we need to tone it down or the [insert prejudice] will get mad...but who are we trying to impress? There are some people whose hearts are hardened and they're not going to change. If they can't see LGBT people as fellow humans deserving of respect, they're not going to change because we come out with a "milder" message. By that point we've watered down what we mean and we've won no more converts for the effort. Like the people who say they'll only support LGBT people if they're "straight-acting". If they get married and have children and live in a house with a white picket fence and never discuss their sexuality, but that's not really acceptance, is it? Acceptance is realizing that not all LGBT people are going to be like that but renouncing prejudice anyway.

@SW-User Not saying you have to appeal, just not push away. Using the word "pride" here, is like an open goal because every person that takes a few seconds to think about this should be able to figure out that something feels wrong using it in this particulair context. It's largely people that see "shame" and "pride" as a binairy that just go with it OR people that are already okay, and those people don't need to be converted annyway.

I'm not really sure what other message this movement needs then to get into "the norm". After you did that, the movement isn't nescessary annymore. When people accept LGBT as every other human that isn't, and you have the same rights and you can marry for the law. Then the movement disolves. We aren't there yet, so activism should just be busy trying to reach that goal. And you don't do that with provoking those members in society that keep resisting. How do you do it? Well, that's for activists to figure out, but provocation isn't it according to me.