18 dead in Texas school mass shooting...your thoughts ? 😔 💔

@Jeephikelove But that's impossible. Our culture wouldn't allow it.

@Jeephikelove it is more complicated. But, we sure don't need the number of guns in the community.

@Jeephikelove with all due respect, that is the worst non sequitor of an analogy I've ever seen😱

@Slade why?

@Jeephikelove Because you are saying mass murder is legal if the gun is

@Slade I’m saying that abortion isn’t murder and that nothing is done politically to put a stop to babies actually being murdered, by guns, at school where they should be safe.

@Jeephikelove why is it different if they are killed at school rather than in the womb?

@Slade you’ve got to be fucking kidding me!??

@Jeephikelove Not at all. Why is one condemned and one celebrated

@Slade that’s my question!!!!!

@Jeephikelove which one do you believe is celebrated?

@Slade not celebrated, that’s your word.

@Jeephikelove there are more guns than people in the u.s. how are you gonna get rid of them (the guns, haha)?

@Slade For some reason...lefties seem to think human beings have no rights until they are out of the womb. 🙄 The same brilliant minds are convinced that getting rid of legally owned firearms is the answer to stopping gun violence when the vast majority of firearm homicides are the result of violent felons shooting people with guns they've acquired illegally. Sadly, we've seen this idiotic debate far too many times before. School shooting can be stopped or at least minimized when schools have appropriate levels of armed security.

@BizSuitStacy where did they aquire their guns, a substantial.were stolen. Isn't it likely that if there were fewer guns, there would be fewer thefts of guns? Perhaps if every gun owner had to see how evidence they had as locked storage place for guns? Isn't it at least worth a try? This young man purchased over $3k worth of firearms and ammunition over a short period of time. Certainly if there were a way to require a gun buyer to show they had such, there would be fewer thefts. Without banning guns, maybe some obvious effort might lower risk.

BTW, the school involved had armed personnel on site, the perpetrator was allowed into the school!

@samueltyler2
There are many ways in which criminals acquire firearms illegally other than stealing them from law abiding citizens. Ghost guns, trafficked guns, guns purchased legally by one person, then given, borrowed or sold to another. The typical "stolen gun" if and when it's recovered by law enforcement, has been out on the streets for an average of 11 years after the theft. Truth is there are millions of illegal guns on the street already. Most secure storage is easily circumvented by theives with exception of some very expensive vaults, properly installed vaults. Secure storage is effective at preventing children from accessing guns in a home. But we are going down a rabbit hole.

[quote]BTW, the school involved had armed personnel on site, the perpetrator was allowed into the school![/quote]
Fact checkers have determined your statement is mostly false. The school had a number of security measures in place. The school [b][i]district[/i][/b] has its own police force of 4, count 'em 4 officers for the entire district. Numerous reports state there was 1 district officer posted at entrance of the Uvalde school. And in every report I've read, there is absolutely no indication of whether or not the district officer was armed. Seems to me that with all the debate over arming teachers or having armed security on campus, this is an important detail to conveniently leave out. Apparently, the officer attempted to intercept the shooter, and then was shot. Reports then say the kid entered the school through a backdoor that should have been locked. I'd wager the cop at the door wasn't armed. And IMHO, having a security force of only one person is insufficient.

@BizSuitStacy I will not argue about how criminals acquire weapons, the FBI facts are that about 50% are stolen. The fact remains that there are more than one firearm per citizen in the US, that includes the population under 18 years of age, so, if one were to look at adults, there are probably more than 2 weapons per person. If they are unlocked, they are accessible. Can we agree with that statement? Fifty percent of deaths from firearms appears to be related to suicide. Keeping weapons unavailable to those individuals might have prevented their deaths, at ;least from gunshots, which carry a far higher mortality rate than any other form of suicide.

There have been no real "fact checker," as to the circumstances in the latest incident. The news conferences have been bungled with misstatements that even include 2 different versions of how the perpetrator actually died. I remember having to "qualify" with a handgun while I was a Naval officer. My accuracy was terrible, and I was trained and tried hard to accommodate the Navy. It appears that the gunman far outgunned the local police. That is one of the things I believe, you can also agree with. Equipped with an alleged AR-15, and large capacity clips, wearing some sort of body protection, he outgunned the law enforcement people.

As to why the school doors were unlocked, if they were, and a great number of other questions, need to be answered and changes made in that school as well as others. How was it that he crashed his car, was seen on video leaving the car and entering the school with weapons displayed and no massive reaction occurred, is a real conundrum.

Have you ever seen a body after it took 1 or mor high speed rounds? I have nightmares about the seen in my treatment rooms in the ER after working to save a life, you can't even imagine the scene if you haven't seen it. TV shows don't do any justuice to the gore!

Before I give up, here, and you will probably fight me over this, why does a citizen need such a weapon? A US Senator this morning said that in his state, they need them to kill wild boar...seriously? Do they need such powerful weapons to hunt...do animals wear kevlar vests?

I agree that this is not an easy problem to solve, but by simply accepting such events as inevitable, we get no where!

@samueltyler2 [quote]Fifty percent of deaths from firearms appears to be related to suicide.[/quote]
Actually...67% of deaths from firearms are suicides. But before you get too excited about me proving your point, let's look at the Australian gun ban and buy back. Suicides by firearm went down, but suicide by other methods went up. No net effect in reducing overall suicide. The guns are simply the tool, not the motivation itself. You're a doctor...you know this.

[quote]Equipped with an alleged AR-15, and large capacity clips, wearing some sort of body protection, he outgunned the law enforcement people.[/quote]
This is the point at which gun control advocates expose a lack of knowwledge around firearms and turn to talking points. Why do gun control advocates refer to magazines as clips? They aren't the same thing. And why do gun control advocates refer to a standard, 30 round magazine as [b][i]high capacity[/i][/b]?The concept what is or isn't large arbitrary. It's also completely irrelavant when your target isn't capable of shooting back. Dylan Klebold proved that at Columbine, as did Seung-Hui Cho at Virginia Tech. Then you claim he [b][i]outgunned[/i][/b] law enforcement. But in your earlier statement, you claim [quote] the school involved had armed personnel on site.[/quote] So now we're back the question of how many armed personnel were there, with what were they armed, and are they adequately trained? Again...these particular details are quite vague. So let's step back and face facts. Almost all mass shooters use semi-automatic firearms (pistols and/or rifles) and bring along multiple magazines loaded with ammunition. Was this school adequately prepared to address a mass shooting event? Obviously not. The shooter crashes his car through a fence. Then he walks out carrying an AR-15 in hand. He shoots the one security officer. And then goes through a door that should have been locked. Once inside, the shooting rampage continues until police and tactically trained border agents arrive.

I can appreciate your medical background and the horror of gun shot wounds. I can't speak to that. But by the same token, do you really know what you are talking about describing firearms such as an AR-15? It's clear there are sufficent gaps in your knowledge.

While it may look scary, the AR-15 is still just a semi-automatic firearm. It uses a technology that's been available for more than 100 years, and the rifle itself has been available for sale to the public for nearly 60 years. It is estimated that 70% of the firearms owned today are semi-automatic. The AR-15 is the most popular rifle platform in the US. It's lightweight, modular and easily accept accessories.
It's easy to learn to use, has minimal recoil, and the ammunition is (well, used to be) widely available and relatively inexpensive. Contrary to your claims, the AR-15 is not a high powered rifle. The military considers it a mid-power rifle. A retired Army Ranger friend of mine calls it a ".22 that's been going to the gym." Yes, they are effective at stopping wild boar which are incredibly destructive to farmers crops. That's more for pest control than for hunting. Though, the AR platform is used for game hunting when chambered in the appropriate caliber. And this will make gun control advocate's heads spin...the AR-15 is an excellent firearm for home defense. In my training, a Marine taught us about the ballistics of the .223 Remington bullet. It, by design, tumbles and breaks apart when it hits a solid object travelling at speeds of 2500 feet/second. The advantage of this is that the round doesn't over penetrate walls inside the home in the event of a miss, reducing risk to your neighbors. It also creates a horrid wound when it hits its target. This is not to be confused with some of the steel core 5.56 mm rounds which will penetrate multiple walls, body armour, etc. Choose wisely. People are inherently more accurate with shoulder fired arms than they are are with hand held arms...something you became aware of in your basic training in the navy. The light recoil makes follow up shots easier in case of a miss. In the event of a home invasion, the standard 30 round magazine is superior to the minimalist 10 round mag. Home invasions are not rare. The FBI estimates them at 1.1 million per year in the US. The average number of intruders in a home invasion is nearly 3 people. Wanna get in a gun fight against 3 people and have to swap mags under fire after expelling 10 rounds? And that crap about "if you can't get it done with 10 rounds, you better go back to the range," only comes from the mouths of gun control advocates. Paper targets don't move and they don't shoot back. So how many rounds do you need in a gun fight? No one can truthfully answer that. And hopefully you're never in a situation to find out.

@samueltyler2
And, as times goes on, the actual facts begin to emerge...

"Earlier this week, a Texas Department of Public Safety representative said a school resource officer had “engaged” with the shooter before he entered the school, but DPS Regional Director Victor Escalon later contradicted the department’s claim.

"He walked in unobstructed initially,” Escalon said, according to CNN. “So from the grandmother’s house, to the (ditch), to the school, into the school, he was not confronted by anybody.” "

So...no one engaged the shooter before he entered the school. He simply walked right in. And Uvalde police apparently waited an hour for backup to arrive before responding. So they just sat back and allowed this to happen. Absolutely disgusting.

@BizSuitStacy yes, but, against n, had the shooter not been able the purchase the weapons, there would not have been the carnage.

@BizSuitStacy I admit to having limited knowledge about how the actual weapons work, and I do get confused by terminology. I did learn, as a teenager as part of my NRA training, that a 22 long bullet will penetrate an inch thick block of wood at a mile. I also know what I saw, as explained to me by police and medical examiners, an seen by me, that when a bullet from what was allegedly an AR-15- like weapon, the internal damage created are devastating.

But, the point still is, had this shooter not been able to procure the weapons, those kids would still be alive. As to suicides, yes, people attempt to kill themselves in other ways, but, if they have access to a weapon, they will more likely succeed. In my work in EDs I have saved the lives of hundreds of suicide attempt victims by overdose. Many lived successful lives afterward, some kept in touch with me for years afterward.

As to needing a weapon in your home for self protection, I believe the figures for such don't really support your contention that it saves lives. In fact, I have read reports to the contrary, that the possession of a weapon in the home actually increases the risk of being the victim of a shooting rather than protecting. If you are so paranoid that you really believe that there will be a massive attack and you will be forced to be part of a militia to defend your home, I feel sorry for you, and suggest you find psychological help.

@samueltyler2
Ever heard of Defensive Gun Use? Perhaps you should read about the CDC's research on the topic. There are several other studies that were conducted with similar results. Even CNN conducted one, but never published the results. I can't imagine why. https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/04/30/that-time-the-cdc-asked-about-defensive-gun-uses/?sh=7e5b7b57299a
Guns are used far more frequently in self defense than to kill maliciously.

[quote]I have read reports to the contrary, that the possession of a weapon in the home actually increases the risk of being the victim of a shooting rather than protecting.[/quote]
Congratulations. You've bought into to widely debunked and discredited Kellerman study. Lots of gun control nuts reference it. Oddly...it's never been peer revirwed nor has Kellerman ever released his data for review. I can't imagine why.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/editorial-deconstructing-kellermann/

[quote]the point still is, had this shooter not been able to procure the weapons, those kids would still be alive.[/quote]
But you'll [b]never ever[/b] stop someone from procuring a gun if they want it badly enough. No gun law will stop it. No amount of gun confiscation will ever totally prevent it. So what are you recommend doing once that crazed lunatic still manages to accesses that firearm and goes on a shooting rampage? Whine about repeated failures of gun laws and controls preventing access to guns? Lecture us again on the horrors of a bullet wound?
Evil has existed since the beginning of human existence, and it's not going away. And we've seen that gun free zones are a magnet for evil. A solid contigency plan for an active shooter is necessary. The school failed. And the Uvalde police showed us they are a bunch of cowards.

[quote]If you are so paranoid that you really believe that there will be a massive attack and you will be forced to be part of a militia[/quote]
Whoa...find a new rabbit hole to run down, doc? Massive attacks? Joining tne militia? I was talking home defense, not defending the nation against tyranny. Maybe you don't know the difference. Perhaps you should visit with your neurologist to address your cognitive capacity.

@BizSuitStacy I give up with you! Your mind is concrete and you see only things that you want to see. You do know that the funding for any CDC research on gin use disappeared many years ago, and that trying to get federal funding for research on gun violence, is all but impossible. I am a scientist, I read scientific journals, not right wing rebuttals of such. Have a great life!

@samueltyler2 Ask yourself [b]why[/b] the CDC's report on DGUs disappeared? Fortunately, everything posted to the internet is forever. Plus, there are at least a dozen other studies that came to the same conclusion. Ohhh...you're a scientist? You read scientific jounals?
So. I have a BS in biology. Scientists are human and corruptible. Just look to your leader, Dr. Fraudci. Spare us your superiority complex. You're a leftist hack who thinks they know better. The classic psychological flaw of every leftist. BTW...I've researched gun violence for more than a decade. I've read several books, dozens of articles and even contributed research for some. I've studied the FBI's crime database, the relative strength of the gun laws in each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia, and gun ownership by state. There is no correlation between gun violence and gun laws, nor is there any correlation between gun violence and the relative number of guns owned per capita. The 3-90 rule applies. 90% of the gun violence occurs in America's inner cities...run by democrats. 90% of firearm homicides are committed by people with at least one felony on their record. The average is four. BTW...it's illegal for felons to be in possession of a firearm...those gun laws at work. 90% of firearm homicides are committed with handguns. Rifles and shotguns account for 5% each. Firearms the left refers to as "assault weapons" such as the AR-15 that you villify accounts for less than 1% of all firearm homicides. You are statistically far more likely to be beaten to death in a fight with hands and feet than you are from an AR-15. That's the science skippy.