I Question The Age Of Consent

@BanPlastic All of these things can still be true while basing a law on the specifics of consent and not a magic number.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow That wouldn't work because consent is difficult to determine when a child is too willing to comply with adult instruction and may not have developed the assertiveness to refuse something unwanted. It's fine if you lack the empathy to understand basic child psychology, but you should heed the words of those who know better. Please, keep your hands off children :)

@BanPlastic That makes no sense and contradicts your own statements. None of that changes because of an arbitrary number. By your own admission that can be proven by child psychology and actual science not some random number a politician pulled out of hat. I have seen actual clear cut cases where something clearly coersive took place but literally nothing was done because the victim hit a magic number.

And your passive aggressive hostility is very childish too.

Try coming up with an actual argument instead of an emotional tantrum.

@BanPlastic We also know from science that not everyone has the same congnitive abilities and people mature mentally at different rates. An arbitrary number has no solution for that.

And we make determinations on consent based on coersion and power dynamics on other crimes all the time. Why not apply the same common sense approach. When someone is pressured or coerced into handing over their life savings we don't say "Sorry you were 18 when you got scammed sucks to be you."

@BanPlastic well I think it also depends on the country in question. Like if the age of consent is say 21, then I think it's logical to question that. That said I do think there needs to be an age of consent.

Countries have a very varying rate for age of consent. Like in some US states it's 18, others it's 16. Over here in South Africa, the age of consent is 16.

Personally I don't think adults should sleep with anyone below 18 years of age, but I see no issue for an example if a 15 year old and 17 year old are dating. They're called Romeo and Juliet laws. In places it hasn't existed it's let the 17 year old and the 15 year old to be labeled as sex offenders, which I think is a bit ridiculous.

Sadly teens are gonna have sex, most people have sex the first time between 15-17 years of age. They definitely shouldn't be sleeping with adults, but we also can't treat them like infants and not educate then about the dangers of older adults, safe sex, etc.
I'm personally a big believer in harm reduction.

@basilfawlty89 I am more in favor of basing laws on consent and power dynamics based on science, and psychology versus a number just picked out of a hat. Basing it on brain development, psychology and power dynamics will by default already make minors a no go area but it will also deal with people who are not at the same cognitive level or develop at different rates. For example it would deal with cases where you have a 22 year old with the mental development of a 12 year old. In many countries there are not many options to get justice without declaring the victim legally incompetent turning them into a child legally across the board which is not exactly ideal.

@basilfawlty89 It also would take care of creeps like our former Minister from Public Safety who got away with getting a 17 year old pregnant because she was "of age" and the power dynamic of him being the top cop in that land was not even considered.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I mean to an extent. I do think there does need to be a cut off age where no one can possibly consent to sex at all. Like over here, any sexual contact with a child under 12 is regarded as child molestation, even if it's by a 13 year old, and I personally agree with that as there needs to be a cut off and prepubescent or just entering puberty children cannot consent. They're not even regarded as legally culpable here. You're only legally culpable here at the age of 14 or over.

@basilfawlty89 I agree. I just think you can make that determination based on a person's ability to consent based on science versus how many spins around the sun you have been around for.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow I can see your point. Look I'll be the first to agree not only science should be considered, but power dynamics too. People in positions of power can exploit an 18 year old as well, not to mention there is such a thing as adult grooming.
Coercing anyone into sex is nothing short of evil.

@basilfawlty89 Agreed. And we already do this with other crimes. If someone is coerced into handing over their life savings the fraud squad doesn't say "sorry you were 18, so tough luck."

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow there I agree. On small thing though is I do see a rational reason behind a fixed number with consent in one regard and that is legal rights and obligations. You can, at least over here, only vote, own property, work or joined the armed forces at age 18. So I think there definitely is an imbalance of someone over the age of 18 were to sleep with someone under 18.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Coercion involves threats of violence or force but neither are necessary to make a child comply with a sexual request. Possibilities in exploiting the power disparity between adult and child are vast. There's a reason children can't sign contracts or vote. The same logic applies but is much more serious because it relates to a child's body.

It's not about picking a random number out of a hat but about understanding where a child is likely to be in life and how they're likely to perceive an instruction from an adult. I feel sick having to explain this to you but I also understand the necessity so I'll bear it.

A mentally impaired adult should be treated as a child in the realm of sex too for the same reasons they can't sign contracts. But you can't use that to justify having sex with mature-minded children because even mature-minded children are programmed to comply with adult instruction and may not be equipped with the knowledge and good judgment to make decisions around sex with the risks of sex in mind.

For these reasons, a blanket age of consent is absolutely necessary. I'm not claiming that older people can't be taken advantage of, but the possibilities are far greater with children and a line has to be drawn somewhere. I think school-aged children should be totally off limits to adults because they are still in 'do as you're told' mode.

Your logic is flawed in trying to use cases of adults being taken advantage of to justify sex with children but your attraction to children is probably causing you to grasp at straws. Understandable, but you need to take control of that so you don't psychologically and physically harm a child. I suggest seeking counseling to help you cope with your feelings. Avoid child pornography and anything that encourages this attraction. Don't let your cock dictate your sense of right and wrong.

@basilfawlty89 I don't know about SA but here in Canada the age of consent and the age of majority have always been different.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow it is different here too. Which I've found strange. If you can be criminally convicted and can have sex, you should have the right to vote, property, etc.

@BanPlastic Your holier then thou condescension is a bit tedious. Come back when you want to talk in good faith.

@BanPlastic And screw you for implying anyone who questions whether there is a better way to accomplish something is a child molester. Grow up.

@BanPlastic I think it's a little unfair to accuse him of dabbling in child porn or being a predator just because he thinks we should rather decide the age of consent via science and power dynamics. I mean that's a very harsh accusation.

I don't recall him saying that he wished to sleep with adolescent or encouraging adults to sleep with then.

@basilfawlty89 Because teenagers mature very quickly, there is a large maturity gap between a 17 and 15 year old. A 15 year old to me is still a child interested in child activities. A 17 year old is on the cusp of adulthood. A 14 year old with a 16 year old would also be bad. But aside from that, I also think 15 year olds may not be aware enough of sexual health or be developed enough for good decision making. Just to be safe, I would put the age of consent at 16 for any sex. But for sex with people over two years older, I am adamant on 18 since that's the age people start university and are more able to think for themselves and be aware of their autonomy and how to deal with unwanted advances.

@BanPlastic that's my opinion as well. In addition I do think safe sex advice should be taught to teens to prevent teenage pregnancies and STDs. Abstinence only education doesn't work. You have to look at it from a harm reduction standpoint.

I also think there should be more laws against adult coercion too. For example, I know of 19 year old women who were pressured into sex by a partner. That's coercion and there should be actions against that.

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow If you think I'm being 'holier than thou' for wanting you to stop trying to justify sex with children, then you need to take a long look at yourself. The science is already clear on power dynamics and there are good reasons for having an age of consent. I've explained why trying to establish power dynamics on a case-by-case basis regardless of age isn't going to work. Why don't you do some research on countries with a low age of consent and see how widespread child sex trafficking is? You're trying to use science to justify what you want to do with children but your approach is not at all scientifically supported. You're horny. I get it. Again, recognize when your lust is causing you to bull shit yourself.

@BanPlastic And keep this up you will learn the meaning of a new legal term "slander."

@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Oh making legal threats are we? That's rich coming from someone who wants the age of consent abolished. Just because adults can be taken advantage of due to power dynamics and just because we need laws around that does NOT mean the age of consent needs to be abolished. The fact you want the age of consent abolished is suspicious for good reason. The law is often based on science and power dynamics. That's why there are sexual harassment laws for workplaces and age of consent laws (science has demonstrated that children do not have the developmental capacity to give consent). That's also why children can't sign contracts or vote (children can be used by adults). You haven't proven anything.

@BanPlastic You are the one accusing me of being a pedophile based on nothing but your own delusions. And again completely misrepresenting my position so you are either illiterate or dishonest. Again I never advocated for abolishing anything. But go on tilting a windmills. And again making claims with nothing to support it and going off on irrelevant tangents. Age of consent in Canada before 2008 was set in 1890 before cognitive science or psychology even existed as a discipline. And when it was raised in recent times it was done twice within an 8 year period to coincide with election cycles. So yeah....real scientific. I merely suggested applying a method that is a little more modern than the Victorian era. But like those who oppose all law reform you resort to calling your opponent a criminal based on nothing at all.