is there anything more sad than those males who self identify as Male Feminists?

@deadgerbil never claimed there were not other desperate ways men try to get laid. What i claimed is this is the most pathetic way
I am not even going to get started on abortion.

@Torsten how can you avoid the topic of abortion when it's been a major feminist issue and there's been legislation passed against it in America? What is your stance on it?

@deadgerbil i am avoiding it because I know where the convo will go if it becomes about that. I am not for abortions except in very rare cases. That is all i will say

@Torsten I'm not for abortions either, but it's not really my decision. You know, 'cause it's not my body and stuff.

@BlueVeins no but its your child. I dont care what others say. Fathers always get a say also and if people want to take all responsibilty and rights away from fathers. They should not have to pay child support or anything like that if women choose not to abort

@Torsten Pumping a load into someone doesn't give you control over her body though, she has a right to refuse to incubate. I actually do kinda agree that child support is kinda unjust since the father doesn't have any way of relinquishing parenthood, but with the social safety net being as weak as it currently is, the child support system is necessary for reducing child poverty. Getting children the resources they need to thrive is far more important than fairness. And relatedly, the family courts need massive reform bc it's currently very difficult for fathers to get custody due to systemic sexism.

@BlueVeins its not just her body we are speaking about now though is it? There is over 40 forms of birth control, condoms and so on that could have prevented getting pregnant in the first place. It doesnt just magically happen out of nowhere. It happens due to recklessness and both parties are at fault if they did not want a child.
I hate this whole thing where people try removing all responsibilities away from fathers with this. That is his child also.
I will only ever support abortion if it actually puts the mothers life in danger. Any other times I am firmly against it as I consider it murder

@Torsten The vast majority of abortions are conducted in the first trimester, before the point at which the fetus becomes sentient. There are second trimester abortions -- which I'm much more sympathetic to banning -- but even then, you can't legally be required to use your body to sustain someone else's. Like if I'm out on the road and my shitty driving causes a car crash, the police can't forcibly hook me up to a dialysis machine or something to save the person I just collided with, even though it's my fault we're in this situation to begin with.

I do, however, agree with the implication that more couples should use birth control, and we need to expand both access and education. Would like to point out that one of the two major political parties is against those measures (not that you're a part of said party, just putting that out there). But yeah, none of what you're saying is credible reason to throw out bodily autonomy.

@BlueVeins doesnt matter to me. Life starts at conception as far as I am concerned. Keep in mind this is just my opinions, its not hurting anyone to have them. i am not actively outside of abortion clinics stopping women from entering them. I am just saying i dont support them because i view it as murder and there is so many ways to prevent it from ever having to get to that point. I am personally tired of people making excuses for getting pregnant when it comes to abortions. they tried using rape as if its most cases when in fact its just a little over 1% of cases i believe. Next tried blaming men for not wearing condoms yet at the same time taking all responsibility away from men. It just seems like a bunch of excuses instead of taking responsibility for their own actions.

@Torsten Well it sorta does affect other people, right? The society we live in is ultimately the sum of the values that its people hold.

@BlueVeins my opinions on abortion, isnt changing any womans mind on getting a abortion. They dont consider men as having a say regardless, so my opinion should mean jack all to them

@Torsten That seems overly broad, I tend to think women who say they don't care about men's views on the subject are kinda just a reaction to the whole problem of ignorant politicians regulating their bodies. Most people, regardless of gender, kinda just see people as people, and primarily (though not entirely) consider their opinions as individuals rather than as demographic groups. IDK, there are some people who legit are just misandrists and that sucks, but even that is pretty obviously a result of material conditions created by the exact same diseased gender roles that they're trying to fight.

More importantly though, men's opinions impact them whether they take them seriously or not because men make up half the voting public and control a substantial majority of the world's -- and the country's -- financial resources.

@BlueVeins I agree, most women I am sure care somewhat about the fathers thoughts. I get women being annoyed by politicians, and them deciding things like this for sure and I do feel bad for the very small cases of those women who are pregnant due to rape or those who have no other choice but abortions. I am sure its a incredibly hard thing to go through and something i will never understand, But i still have my opinions on abortion in general and what it is that i just cant shake off