is there anything more sad than those males who self identify as Male Feminists?

@LilithoftheTrees and how have they contributed to it?

@Torsten for starters there are many men who have helped women get the right to vote. Closing other men out on gender based violence or rape. The list is long.

@LilithoftheTrees I am talking about now. Not when real feminism actually existed haha

@Torsten you mean like those incel guys? I have never met a man that sees equality as a loss of masculinity. In fact the men I know who I would consider “feminists” are some of the most rugged masculine men I’ve ever met. What’s real feminism?

@LilithoftheTrees real feminism was about equality for all. Feminism now is about special treatment for women at the expense of men

@Torsten can you give me an example please. I’d really like to understand where you’re coming from.

@LilithoftheTrees well the wage gap is a good starting point. Women want to be paid the same as men despite not working the same jobs or hours.
some women still try claiming the wage gap is real. Any basic research shows otherwise but again it never been about equality and fairness

@Torstenso what’s it been about then? Giving women special privilege? Come on. What are you talking about bro. You’re ranting things as if it’s facts and not your opinion. Show me some data.

@LilithoftheTrees i just gave you a good example. try telling me the wage gap is real

@Torsten what are we talking about here so I can narrow it down. Your hatred for feminist men, women and special privileges, picking up women or the wage gap. Wage gap…ok.
In my country around 38% of households are headed by women. Female-headed households are approximately 40% poorer than those headed by men. Also, 48% of female-headed households support extended family members compared to 23% of male-headed households doing the same. In addition, women have to handle the following: supporting children, earning less than men, coping with domestic violence and struggling with access to resources to improve their lives. This means power relations are skewed in favour of men.

That comes from an academic article.

@LilithoftheTrees i dont hate women at all thanks. I also dont hate men. I am all for equality to both. I am not about special treatment and hand outs.

you just said women earn less than men. That there is the basis of the wage gap yet it does not properly conclude that men and women choose different professions and men normally work much more hours. Men normally go for the higher paid jobs and women go for the less paying jobs. The wage gap tries to push that women and men work work the exact same jobs and hours and that women get paid less for doing the exact same when it couldnt be further from the truth.

Also do you notice how feminism is always about womens rights? It is suppost to be about equality for all but when mens rights are mentioned, its treated as a joke by feminists

@Torsten I don’t feel that way about men’s rights. I feel all peoples rights should be considered, but I ham a woman so I relate to feminine issues. Yes women have chosen different professions historically and that’s a product of our society and the natural inclinations of men and women. You have to consider that in the past women weren’t pushed the same way as men to follow certain vocations. I don’t disagree that men work longer hours generally however what about childcare? You don’t consider a woman with a half day job for example who takes care of the household to be working. According to a census site of America, Currently, in 2022, the pay gap difference still stands at 17%, which is almost $20 less for females for every $100 a male makes.

Can I ask you, how does any of this affect you personally?

@LilithoftheTrees well you are one of the good ones in that case.
Women mostly look after their children for sure and that limits them to working the same hours as men. I am not debating that. I am saying that a lot of women want to be paid the exact same as men for doing less. That is what i mean by special treatment and handouts.
The wage gap is false like i said. This $20 less for every $100 a male makes is factually incorrect for the reasons I have already stated.

How does any of this affect me? Again because feminism today is about putting down men in order to get special treatment.
you say you are not like this but most feminists today laugh at mens rights as if its a joke despite the very real seriousness of it such as high suicide rates within men these days.
Another way it has affected me and getting more personal here but when I went through 2 years in family court fighting for my right to be a father and losing that case for no other reason because I was not a female.
Women have all the advantages and bias in family law.
Where are all the feminists fighting for equality there? there is none doing that.
And i repeat, feminsim is not about equal rights for all. Its to advantage women and only women

@Torsten i understand now

@Doomflower do you?

@Torsten yep. Specifically I understand you and where you're coming from. I also understand people and the system well enough to know there is probably a very good reason you didn't win in court.

@Torsten I am sorry you went through that re your children. I’m not sure how it is in Norway but I think the courts go for preferential treatment simply because the statistics show that women are less likely to abandon their children. Also there is an important bond re nurturing re mother and child. Not discounting men’s role at all. I think a better system should be in place with regards to that.I’m not sure how. I understand your frustration but this is not to say that feminism is moot. You must remember you’re in a first world country where rights of women have been considered for a while and things work. Women aren’t at risk of rape and domestic violence as much as say in a place like Africa. I don’t believe in misandry and I am aware of the suicide rates of men in countries- also in Norway. The problem comes is how you articulate, perhaps if you’d explain your experience in the way you did to me you’d be better understood. You state that feminism is not about equal rights for all - this as far as my understanding from feminist studies and having lived as a woman myself is far from the truth. The wage gap certainly exists here. To be honest I have never come across women getting the same money as men for doing less. I don’t know how that can legally happen, aren’t there legislations in place? How much paternity leave do ken in Norway get?

@Doomflower "probably a very good reason i didnt win in court"
yeah its because of what is between my legs

You claim to understand and yet you say something like that. You dont understand

@Torsten what I mean is that there is more to the story you aren't saying. I simply do not believe it was soley due to your sex or gender.

@LilithoftheTrees I am all for real feminsim is certain countries that need it where women have less rights. Like in some places where they are not even allowed to drive and shit like that. I am not against women getting equal rights at all. I fully support them getting equal rights.
I am just saying my opinions on what feminism has become now for most parts but that is not to say women in all countries have equal rights because obviously they dont.
I am specifically referring to radical feminism if you prefer that term. Where its used to put men down in order to gain special treatment.
when it comes to women being paid less, that is actually illegal when they have the exact same job position and work the exact same hours. I remember things coming out a while ago showing that some women who actually do have the exact same position and hours as men were getting paid more.
This thread was not a dig at women but a dig at men who support rights being taken from them in order to get laid. that is how i consider male feminists

@Torsten what rights have you lost? Is someone forcing you to remain pregnant?

@Torsten no offence dude but you sound like IRL youd be physically threatening all of us🤷‍♀️.
Hard to ignore, take a chill pill🤷‍♀️.

@Doomflower and again you show you really dont understand. There was no reason why i lost that court case except for what i stated. I was treated like a criminal the whole time going through that process and was never given a real shot at getting what is rightfully mine.
Criminal law was used against me with fake claims of assaults in public that required no evidence at all to be charged with and used against me in court despite me having actual evidence i never assaulted anyone (video recordings).
You saying I am leaving out details as to why i lost. It not true. I left out a lot of what happened for sure because I dont like thinking of it but nothing that happened during it was fair towards me and my son

@Alison well you dont know me at all in that case

@Torsten criminal law was used against you?