20 years ago

@Miram Nothing like there is today, children are being slaughtered by their own parents,I am 66 years old and I have never seen anything like what is happening today.

@fairefoutre I stand by what I wrote, if you can not see the difference in now and then, that is up to you.

@FairyGirlGemma Mr C was a very nice man. Didn't he splash out on a new dress for young Monika?

@Regfries Lmao!

@Silverwings What is a "sin-heart" problem?

How do you reconcile believing in Jesus with so much nastiness associated with religious organisations? Notably, some of the most hypocritically misogynist and child-hating organisations and individuals claim to be Christian and even use that faith to excuse their inhumanity.

(Or any religion or religious figure - Christianity is NOT the world's only religion but I have noticed many of its followers on SW seem to think it is.)

How do you reconcile your personal belief in one religious figure with the fact that diseases including the new Coronavirus are natural - so in your terms, evolved by God? Admittedly the Covid and other virii were transferred to humans from their original animal hosts by people misusing animals - but no pathogen knows or takes any notice whatsoever of human-invented dogmas.

Jesus is the only one who can solve all those difficulties you seem to think entirely new to mankind? Well, when?

Of course he can't. He's just one figure in one faith.

It is only humans who create human problems like social, political and religious extremism, territorial ambitions - and only humans can solve them.

It is only humans who can control the risks to themselves from natural hazards outside their control, like pathogens and active volcanoes. (Risk and hazard are not synonyms, though many people muddle them up.)

Some of the things you list are natural and no amount of praying will affect them - but they harm us mainly by our own unwariness or an assumption we now see as naïve and out-dated, that we can "tame Nature". No we can't: Nature bites back sooner or later, directly or indirectly. We see that ranging from human effects on the environment and climate, to the ruins of optimistically-built sea-defences.

Some are artificial and even literally "man"-made: hard-line social, political or religious "isms", racism, wilful ignorance.

Artificial too, is deliberate oppression of fellow-humans by their [i]natural[/i] human characteristics of race, sex, sexuality, and mental or physical ability or disability. Those who use a religion to justify such oppression are fearful, cruel cowards; but fear, cruelty and cowardice have always been with us.

[i]There is nothing fundamentally new in any of your examples, except mere detail or language. [/i]

Covid-19 is "new" only in being a new species of its own Corona genus, to infect humans - our primate-genus species has been prone to a bewildering variety of diseases throughout its quarter-million year history.

Rioting and looting are nothing new at all. Iconoclasm goes back millennia. So does slavery. Most ancient leaders were no better or worse than any we have today - just as bright or dim; just as benevolent or despotic.

"Antifa" sounds like a Middle Eastern culinary speciality, but though I am not American so don't know its specific meaning or context (if any), I do know it is new only as a word. There is nothing new in slang terms of political abuse coined by people unable to handle polysyllables and political analysis.

No - you list only manifestations of respectively natural and human failings, weaknesses and problems that have beset humanity down the ages; irrespective of or based on any mystical faith or none.

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The Human Being [i]en masse[/i] is its own worst enemy, despite Jesus' calls for mutual respect and tolerance. In fact the supernatural deities ancient societies invented just let us sink or swim. It is entirely our fault if we hate each other for looking different, supporting a different political party, being of the opposite sex or sexual orientation, worshipping a different or no god. Even something as peurile as worshipping the "right" god in the "wrong" way has always been and often still is, a cheap excuse for murder.

It is not our fault but Nature's (or your God's) that we are prey to diseases, but at least we can try to control and treat diseases and on the whole are pretty good at doing so, thanks to our positive use of our equally natural, brain-power.


Yet we cannot abrogate responsibility for ourselves to mysticism - but though religious beliefs have always caused so many human problems, they are not the only cause and are certainly not the answer.

Only humans can solve human troubles, whether they follow any religion or none.

@ArishMell Your post is a perfect example of the sin heart problem, there is much good done in the name of Christ but you prefer to concentrate on the bad, proving the bias. God warned us in the bible that there would be bad seeds mixed in with the good seeds, but you do not take that into account, before sin entered into this world there was no such thing as disease, sickness, lack, poverty, abuse, or other religions, and yes hate is our fault it did not come from our creator, but from his adversary, and is perpetrated thru his minions, the only religious beliefs that have caused problems are the ones that did not come from the Lord, if his word and his spirit were truly followed, we would have heaven on earth, instead of the opposite, you justify own natural human characteristics as normal, but God judges them as sinful, he created us and we are his subjects whether we like it or not, and as God he has the right to say what is wrong and what is right, if we want to be on his side, it is our job to line up with his word. The brain power you speak of is God given, as is everything else that we have or ever hope to have. We are but mere specks in the scope of things, but God loves us enough that he was willing to sacrifice himself on our behalf.

@Silverwings Thank you for the compliment, eve n if you misinterpreted me! :-)

I do NOT justify bad people as you seem to think¬!


I do not deny there is also a lot of good in the world, and though I believe in no gods and know perfectly well you don't need believe in supernatural beings to be a good person; but I do know the basic humanity of Jesus' preaching. (I am from a liberal - small "l" and non-political "liberal" - Anglican background.)

[quote]you justify own natural human characteristics as normal, but God judges them as sinful[/quote]

I do not "justify" bad or negative characteristics in people by why did your God allow their possibility only then to condemn them? It is you whop call them "normal" - but the vast majority of people either lack those characteristics or control them.

I refer you to your original question which is based on a mere two decades and does not even mention ANY religion - be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Sikh, Hindu, Wicca...

There have [i]always[/i]been diseases and other natural attacks on "us"; there have [i]always[/i] been both bad and good people - and of all faiths and none.

No religion has an theological, philosophical or moral monopoly, and to claim only Christianity has all the answers to human failings and natural hazards is absurd and insulting to those not following your version of your faith.

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Just as I typed that, the News on the radio in the background reported that a woman who had converted to Islam has been jailed for life (not literally - she will be eligible for a parole hearing eventually) for plotting a bomb attack in St. Paul's Cathedral, in London.

I think your God might consider her "sinful". I just call her amoral and cruel; and though I do not know her motive, if she defended her intentions as religious as also a coward.

@basilfawlty89 Columbine occurred April 20, 1999.

@Silverwings exactly more than 20 years ago.