If you tell the truth under oath, are you a rat?

@xSharp Under an oath where you are sworn in to tell the truth, so help you God.

@MarkPaul so what happened to the last guy who lied under oath?

@xSharp Convicted. Jail time. No socks.

@MarkPaul then whats the point of an oath if they already know if they are lying?

@xSharp It's what we call, morality.

@MarkPaul so its moral to not tell a lie even when its in your interest to lie? just because of an oath that does not even coincide with ones own beliefs? moral to who?

@xSharp If you have taken an oath to tell the truth, you need to tell the truth. That's moral. That person is not a rat.

@MarkPaul yes but having everyone assume you are telling the truth simply makes it easier to get them to believe the lie doesn't it?

@xSharp You seem to suggesting that lying under oath is a targeted strategy. But, if you swear to tell the truth, you are basically lying directly to God.

@MarkPaul and since when has anyone been punished for it? if one is willing to lie to a cop with a gun, and a judge in a courtroom, what do they have to fear from an immeasurable entity who has no detectable influence on our physical world? while gaining the appearance of being truthful in the process as incentive to do so

@xSharp You seem to be suggesting that there is no physical retribution for lying under oath, so it's okay to do it. Extending that, if you don't get caught, murder is okay or tripping the old woman crossing the street for shits-and-giggles is just fine. Additionally, if you do those things and are charged with doing those things and under oath you claim you didn't do it, you seem satisfied that lying about it has merit because it provides the advantage of not paying the consequences for your actions... if you can get away with it. Yet, that is not moral or justifiable behaviour.

@MarkPaul what about vigilantism?, doing legal wrong for moral right (to prevent the morally wrong from being found legally right) and then lying (moral wrong) to prevent imprisonment (legal right/ moral wrong)

a moral wrong to prevent another moral to prevent a moral wrong to be found legal right on a technicallity .. the sample space helped.. lol

@xSharp Vigilantism is illegal. And, if you lie about it (under oath), that's immoral.

@MarkPaul but extortion IS legal, moral wrongs are legally right and legal wrongs are often morally right, what logic is this?

@xSharp Extortion is not legal.

@MarkPaul you own your land, you own your house, but you pay property taxes on it, if you dont, its taken away by people backed by men with guns. it sounds a lot like extortion

monsantos also extorts legally, they had the laws changed

@xSharp You're just making up your own definition of extortion. Property taxes are legal and voted on. If you don't like it, you can take efforts to change the law and reduce or eliminate property taxes. The practical problem you will run into though, is most people like the public services that are funded by property taxes, so you are not likely to win your cause.

@MarkPaul income taxes were actually only temporary, they just left them in place after the war, did you know that? it was actually optional at first, but people got used to it and didnt say anything

how does one owe taxes on their own property/land any way?

@xSharp Again, people enjoy the public services that are paid with property taxes, possibly including you. So, while it might be fun to complain about having to pay them, unless you move to a single person island, you need to go with the flow.

@MarkPaul and what if one chooses to live out in the middle of nowhere, someone who turned wilderness into worked and profitable land? should they be removed and their homestead destroyed? should they be back taxed? or do bylaws protect them? and how does one morally judge which fits the situation while attempting to pass a legal judgment?

there is a reason the statue of justice is blindfolded, because complex morals get in the way of one size fits all order

@xSharp Unless you are living on an island of one, you are going to be part of some type of taxing district. Do you use any resources: water, roads, schools, fire protection, trash collection, etc? If you do, you owe property taxes. If you don't and everyone else in your tax district lives like you do, off the grid, then you can easily get out of property taxes. Otherwise, pay up. And, do it with a smile.

"The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a persons conscience." Atticus Finch
To Kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee @xSharp

@MarkPaul a man lived on an island for decades, when they found him he was near death, they dragged him back to the civilization he hated and he died in a hospital soon after, is that moral?

@softspokenman Atticus is an instrument of morality.

@xSharp Yes, that is moral. The man lived his life as he saw fit. And, society reclaimed him to give him a send-off.