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I've just heard about the "incel" movement on the radio.

Is this a real thing.....men that consider themselves involuntary celibate because of genetics? I'm really confused.....

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Quakertrucker · 70-79, M

The InCel men consider that they are involuntarily celibate because women consider them too ugly, too nerdy, too something-or-other to date - or screw.

They feel that this is a violation of their basic human man rights. In 2014, Elliot Rodger shot and killed 6 women in California - before shooting himself - because he felt they had denied his god-given right to penetrative sex and an orgasm.

He has been made into a hero and an icon of the InCel movement. There have been several other similar killings, with the first recorded in 2009.

The InCel men feel that women do not have the right to refuse to have a sexual relationship with any man regardless of how misogynistic or racist or anything else they may be. And, they believe that men have the right to kill any woman who rejects their advances - regardless of whether the women sre interested in having sex with them or not.

The InCell men are InSane!!!

Quakertrucker

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MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@Quakertrucker Well, you are exaggerating a bit, but you are generally on the right track.

Notanymore · 36-40, M

It's not so difficult to find a woman who will share intimacy....as long as you treat them with respect and carry yourself like someone that that is worth their time

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@Notanymore Right, but not everyone has that level of self-esteem.

Notanymore · 36-40, M

True..... that's a big part of what I want to discuss with them. Self confidence is huge....but it's also something you can earn.

SW-User

@Notanymore I do agree these men need help but it's not as simplistic as trying to help these guys find dates who will put out or by helping them to be better with the ladies. They have a deep hatred towards women and a sense of entitlement that would even lead them to violent behavior. Can you imagine one of these guys with a girlfriend who tried to leave him?

Have you read any of their posts by chance? I appreciate you wanting to do something about it. It's a complex issue, for sure.

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@Notanymore First you have to get them to believe they can earn it. Then, you need to show them step-by-step.

Notanymore · 36-40, M

I've literally just heard they exist....and I don't think it's all about sex...I think it has a lot to do with relationships and affection....but I also think that these guys need to learn the difference and as a semi-unattractive man....I can probably help at Least some of them come to grips with that

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@SW-User It's more of self-hatred that they have transferred on to women. But, the outcome is the same.

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@Notanymore I think you are right.

SW-User

@MarkPaul Yes, the outcome is certainly the same because women are a target of this hatred. But this violent tendency models similar violent behavior patterns seen in any hate group. Blaming another group for their woes to the extent that they wish to annihilate them. Certainly a strong sense of self is important for all people in order to interact with the world in a healthy manner. But I think this mentality of entitlement is something that needs to be dealt with in and of itself. This isn't something new; it exists in various forms and varying degrees, including the guy who thinks he deserves sex because he bought you dinner. It's all part of the same continuum.

Notanymore · 36-40, M

Yes...like the men's rights guys.... that have completely let the cheese slide off of their cracker

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@SW-User That's true... it's really part of an entitlement mentality that extends to many parts of life. "I did this, now I'm entitled to..." To some extent, I suspect all humans harbor the tendency. But, like anything, when the tendency explodes into a lifestyle, then it becomes a problem for all concerned.

Notanymore · 36-40, M

But the problem starts with a made up assumption. So it's a problem that can be fixed

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@Notanymore Sure... it can be fixed. But, repairs can be time consuming, expensive, and uncertain. Are you prepared for roadblocks?

Notanymore · 36-40, M

Yeah...... that's kinda what's gotten these guys into this situation anyway right? Roadblocks?

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@Notanymore Yes, that's true. They feel they have [u]only[/u] experienced roadblocks.

SW-User

@Notanymore To some extent. There are a lot of other social factors at play here, that are out of our control. Unfortunately, people are placed in various "heirarchies" based on a number of things including looks, income and social status. In reality, there are women and men who are going to be more challenged to find partners. In many cases, there may be a conflict between expectations vs. reality. This is just another piece of the complex puzzle.

Notanymore · 36-40, M

Of course....the rich, good looking, extremely cool guy will score a lot. But that doesn't mean the other guy can't find someone....hell I've had several girlfriends and one wife. Anybody can find someone to care about them

SW-User

@Notanymore Read their posts. They don't just want any women. They want hot chicks and virgins. They are constantly referring to women in derogatory terms such as bitches, sluts and cunts. These aren't just guys who need a date.

Notanymore · 36-40, M

Okay.... some of them have narcissistic personality disorder (I think that's the right term). But they shouldn't use the word involuntary if they just set their own standards above reality. How can we approach the problem?

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@SW-User That's true. They are using "need a date" as a catchall for all the bad breaks they feel they have gotten over the course of their lives. Really, it's less about getting a date and more about finding a way to love themselves. Although these are scary people, there is a genuine sadness to their inability to find anything they love about themselves. And, tragically, that's not to say people who don't love themselves necessarily fall into this group. These folks go leaps and bounds beyond that by transferring their lack of self-love on everyone else. So, there is no self-accountability.

MarkPaul · 26-30, M

@Notanymore We literally need to break them down in order to build them back up. The biggest challenge will be in getting they to engage in honest self-reflection (introspection). That has to be step-one.

SW-User

@Notanymore I think the root of it is the corrupted perspective. How does this change? I think men will have to be key to this in their interactions with other men, especially young men who are still impressionable. Also, there needs to be mental health services more widely available to all people, including these men or anyone challenged with poor self image issues. How are men who are already involved in such groups helped? Not sure because once it becomes extreme enough, it's difficult to steer them otherwise. Think along the lines of white supremacist groups. How do you get those individuals to think otherwise?

Notanymore · 36-40, M

What I've seen from white supremacists that I've been around isn't so much ideology as it is having a group to be around. So maybe that's the issue..... pretty difficult psychologically. I just wish people weren't so unhappy for such silly reasons. Maybe we need to spend more time as adults talking to younger adults and giving them the right kind of advice

Quakertrucker · 70-79, M

@MarkPaul

They also feel that ONLY they have experienced roadblocks.

Quakertrucker

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