Where are you going on your next vacation?

Lovely! @helenS

@helenS are they open To the public?

@samueltyler2 Yes. Even to non-Catholics... 😁

@helenS then enjoy. Although I love the history, etc., of Rome, our last trip there was a disaster and website never to go back. It was too crowded and dirty.

@helenS that sounds really interesting!

@samueltyler2 Most Papal tombs are underneath the basilica. Those popes who have been canonized are inside the basilica itself though. For example St. Pius X and St. John XXIII are located within the same niche in the basilica, which is kind of ironic. Highly ironic indeed.

Very ironic. Many of the popes were complicit in some bad activities.

@nahright09 I have a high opinion of many popes.

@helenS yes, some seem to be good people, although some of what happened during their time as pope was bad.

@samueltyler2 St. Pius X (1903–1914) is the great "anti-modernist", who fought against modern thinking, whereas St John XXIII (1958–1963) was pope during the 2nd Vatican council when the Catholic church finally made peace with the modern world. They are antipodes in a sense, and both were patriarchs of Venice before they became pope! Now they lie in peace together side by side.

@helenS john seems to have escaped the exposure of church accepted sexual.abuse and failure to fight the Nazis.

@samueltyler2 It's a very sensitive issue. Angelo Roncalli (later St John XXIII) was part of a secret Vatican escape network for Jews, organised in Bulgaria and Hungary. In Hungary some 80,000 baptismal certificates were issued to Jews, to save them.

@helenS but think about Pius during the war years!

@samueltyler2
I think the German butchers wouldn't have been impressed too much by Papal protests. What Pius XII did was saving many thousand innocent people secretly. Hundreds of thousands, actually.

Please note:
"The people of Israel will never forget what His Holiness and his illustrious delegates, inspired by the eternal principles of religion, which form the very foundation of true civilization, are doing for our unfortunate brothers and sisters in the most tragic hour of our history, which is living proof of Divine Providence in this world."

Rabbi Isaac Herzog, chief rabbi of the British Mandate of Palestine, March 1945.

@helenS I am not sure that the quote held up to scrutiny subsequent to that. There may have been a bit of grandstanding to get support for establishing Israel. I will review the history of the debate about Pope Pius.

@helenS i just heard about the tombs this past week. i have been to the vatican twice and climbed to the top of the basilica

@samueltyler2
Here are more quotes:

"The repeated interventions of the Holy Father on behalf of Jewish Communities in Europe has evoked the profoundest sentiments of appreciation and gratitude from Jews throughout the world."
(Rabbi Maurice Perlzweig, Political director of the World Jewish Congress. Written February 18 1944 in a letter to Msgr. Amleto Cicognani, the apostolic delegate in Washington, D.C.)

"In the most difficult hours of which we Jews of Romania have passed through, the generous assistance of the Holy See…was decisive and salutary. It is not easy for us to find the right words to express the warmth and consolation we experienced because of the concern of the supreme pontiff, who offered a large sum to relieve the sufferings of deported Jews…. The Jews of Romania will never forget these facts of historic importance."
(Rabbi Alexander Safran, chief rabbi of Romania note to Monsignor Andrea Cassulo, Papal Nuncio to Romania, April 7 1944)

@helenS I will look it up, I remember hearing so many bad things about his lack of involvement.

@samueltyler2 Thank you for your interest in the subject.

It is not my intention to defend Catholic popes in general, but to defend Pius XII against false accusations.

Personally I believe that the character assassination of Pope Pius XII has been committed by the German slaughterers of the Jewish people, after they lost their war against humanity. The Germans malevolently attempted to tarnish the pope's reputation, in an act of self-indulgence. They were like, "See? It wasn't only us. Others are guilty as well." The murderers point their fingers at others. It drives me mad. 🤬

I'll stop here, and turn sexy country girl again... 😁

@helenS I will check on the facts. I appreciate you and what you have taught me.