Do fish have feelings?

If you’ve eaten and enjoyed squid and/or octopus, does it bother you to know they are intelligent creatures?

Somehow it bothers me less to eat meat that comes from a dumb animal, like chicken or cow. But that doesn’t make sense. Who decides how dumb is dumb enough?

My dad took us fishing several times when we were little and I saw what happened when we caught one, the hook going through its face, its body wriggling like a tongue. The first time, maybe 4 years old, I cried.

“They don’t feel pain the same way we do. This doesn’t even hurt this little guy,” said Dad. He was absolutely firm in his answer, and at that age I always believed him.

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Thinkerbell · 41-45, F

"This doesn’t even hurt this little guy.”

I was told something similar when I was a little older, maybe 8 or 9.

I didn't believe it, and never went fishing again.

Hasn't stopped me from eating fish, however.

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@Thinkerbell The key is to end the animal's suffering as quickly as possible. No reason to let the poor thing drown when you can knock it on the head and end its misery.

LeopoldBloom · M

@LordShadowfire The idea behind kosher and halal slaughter is to minimize the animal's suffering. However, I think Temple Grandin has done a lot more to reduce the suffering of animals than either of those religious traditions.

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@LeopoldBloom I was actually aware of that, because I had a cellmate who was both Jewish and Islamic. (Yes, the same one. No, I don't know how it worked. Even he said it was hard.)

LeopoldBloom · M

@LordShadowfire I remember seeing a "Jews for Allah" website once but I just checked and the URL is parked. But if there can be Jews for Jesus I guess there can be Jewish Muslims. If you formally convert to another religion, you can't take advantage of the Israeli Law of Return. Whether you're still considered Jewish would depend on who you ask.

Thinkerbell · 41-45, F

@LeopoldBloom

I can see some present-day Jews being for Jesus, since Jesus and his earliest followers were Jews. But Muhammad wasn't Jewish, so 'Jews for Allah' seems a rather large stretch.

From here to the Peloponnesus,
There MIGHT be a few Jews for Jesus.
But Jews now for Allah?
I DOUBT the kabbalah
Would say that's how El Shaddai sees us.

LeopoldBloom · M

@Thinkerbell That's pretty good.

Since Judaism holds that the messiah has not come yet, the correct term for "Jews for Jesus" is "Christian." The followers of James the Brother of Jesus did believe that you had to be Jewish first before you could be Christian. Paul didn't buy that; he said anyone - pagan, Jew, whatever - could become a Christian. Paul was a more effective evangelist and after the Romans expelled the Jews from Jerusalem, the James faction became irrelevant.

Jews for Jesus was a scam intended to convert Jews to Christianity. I've also met Christians who approach Judaism from the opposite direction, by keeping kosher and observing the Jewish holidays as they imagine Jesus would have.

I don't see how a Jew can be Muslim, but hey, to each his own. There are even atheist Jewish congregations that observe the holidays for cultural identity but don't believe in God.

Thinkerbell · 41-45, F

@LeopoldBloom

"Since Judaism holds that the messiah has not come yet, the correct term for "Jews for Jesus" is "Christian." "

That would be correct from a religious standpoint, but from a cultural identity standpoint, I think it would be more correct to say they are Jewish Christians.

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

I just don't understand why, since Islam is the newest of the three religions, it must be incompatible with Judaism.

Thinkerbell · 41-45, F

@LordShadowfire

I suppose it would be possible for a Jew to believe that Muhammad was the seal of the prophets, but since Muhammad wasn't Jewish, it seems to me extremely unlikely.