Why are so many of you SO against veggie-based meat substitutes?

@Native

I'm against people not wanting to eat them because why would you take the life of an animal just because you like a beef burger over a beyond meat burger?

You answered it yourself. I like the actual beef better than the synthetic. It’s not like I’m roaming the fields gutting every cow I see. If you have a problem with factory farming, I get that, but people will never stop eating meat as long as it is available. @Pikachu

@Native

Then the question becomes why is it more important to you to have actual beef than to preserve life?

I don’t really see it as a matter of importance. I eat meat because I was raised eating meat, and because our ancestor have always eaten meat. What do we gain out of changing that? What makes cows more significant than any other prey animal? @Pikachu

@Native retard

What a fantastic rebuttal. You should join your grade school
debate team. @DunDunDun

@Native I don't need to debate why it's wrong to torture animals to death for no reason. It's obviously wrong and everyone is aware of that. There's no point in trying to teach you how to feel empathy. It would be just as pointless as trying to talk a rapist out of raping people.

Right, because that’s actually what I do. I torture animals and then I kill them. @DunDunDun

@Native

[quote] I eat meat because I was raised eating meat, and because our ancestor have always eaten meat.[/quote]

That's a logical fallacy known as argument from tradition. It's not right or good to eat meat on the basis that it has been done traditionally.

[quote]What do we gain out of changing that?[/quote]

Not killing other animals. That's what we gain. We gain not taking the life of another breathing, feeling creature.

What evidence do you have to back up the claim that it’s not [i]right[/i] or [i]good[/i] to eat meat? You say that because it is taking a life? I don’t buy that claim. I’m sure you’ve killed plenty of insects in your life and not even for the sake of eating them, but simply removing them from your presence. Is their life less significant because it doesn’t fit into your argument? @Pikachu

@Native

[quote]What evidence do you have to back up the claim that it’s not right or good to eat meat?[/quote]

Easy. Is it good and right to take life when you don't have to? By any recognizable moral standard the answer is no. Feel free to posit a counter argument if you feel you have one.
I don't think you do.

[quote] You say that because it is taking a life? I don’t buy that claim. I’m sure you’ve killed plenty of insects in your life and not even for the sake of eating them,[/quote]

And two more logical fallacies added to the queue.
This time we've got a non-sequitur and a strawman.

Non-sequitur: Whether or not i kill insects has no bearing on whether or not it is right to take life unnecessary.

Strawman: I haven't said that insect life is less significant or that it is right to kill insects unnecessarily. Please confine yourself to arguments i've actually made.
As it happens, i actually DO make an effort to spare the lives of insects wherever possible. Spiders, flies, even mosquitoes. Sorry if that undermines your strawman.

@Native Can you provide evidence that someone torturing you to death is immoral?

So, no, you don’t have any evidence to prove that it’s not right or good? You’re using a fallacy know as [i]appeal to emotion.[/i] I guess Matt left that one off your bookmarked list of fallacies. You’re also coming from the position that all life is equal. You’d have to prove that point as well. @Pikachu

@Native Do you have evidence that it's not right or good to torture a human to death?

What does torturing humans have to do with this discussion? @DunDunDun

@Native It's not about torturing humans specifically, just anything you find immoral. I also could of used rape or something as an example. I'll change the question so maybe it'll be a little easier for your simple mind to understand. Can you give proof that anything is immoral?

You’ve consistently tried to elevate yourself intellectually to me and spited yourself every time. I do wish you’d give up that ruse, for your own sake. I can’t prove that anything is immoral. I can only state what I find to be so. I shouldn’t expect people to adhere to my morality. @DunDunDun

@Native "I admit that morals can't be proven, but if you want me to stop torturing animals to death, prove to me that it's immoral."

Who are you quoting? That is just more proof that you do not even understand the discussion? Do you have a point to make? I’ve been waiting patiently. @DunDunDun

@Native

[quote]You’re using a fallacy know as appeal to emotion.[/quote]

Incorrect.
If you're going to talk about logical fallacies, you need to understand what they are and what they mean. An appeal to emotion attempts to trigger an emotional reaction in order to make a point.
I have not done that.
I've pointed out that the moral position is that taking life unnecessarily is not morally defensible. Life has value. As a society we agree on that. It's why you preserve your life and the lives of those you care about. Taking a life is the ultimate violation.
If you disagree then make your case but don't think you can simply name a fallacy as if it were in itself an argument.

[quote]You’re also coming from the position that all life is equal. [quote][/quote][/quote]

Incorrect.
That's your second strawman in as many posts.
I am not making the argument that all life is equal. I am making the argument that there is no moral justification for taking life unnecessarily.
Again, i must ask you to confine your criticism to arguments i've made, not ones you've imagined.

Nope. I’m correct.

[quote]Is it good and right to take life when you don't have to? By any recognizable moral standard the answer is no. Feel free to posit a counter argument if you feel you have one.
I don't think you do.[/quote]

You’re trying to place yourself in a position of moral superiority and make me feel bad for thinking differently than you.


We as society agree that [i]human life[/i] has value. Killing animals to eat them is not taking a life unnecessarily.

You haven’t made any arguments. You’ve said that it is wrong to unnecessarily take a life. The life in this case being that of a cow. No one is killing cows just to kill them. It’s to harvest their meat. That being unnecessary is merely your opinion. An opinion you have because you’re placing more value on a cow’s life than a typical person would. The question you’re neglecting to answer is why?

Essentially all you’ve stated here is, we shouldn’t eat meat because you don’t want us to.

@Native Some societies are okay with marrying and raping 5 year olds, is that moral just cause they say it's okay?

To me, nope it’s not. @DunDunDun

@Native

[quote]Nope. I’m correct. [quote][/quote][/quote]

Nah. And your clumsy attempt to re-frame my argument as an emotional appeal only proves it.
I didn't try to make you feel bad for thinking differently than me, i challenged you to defend the position that taking life unnecessarily is morally correct.
You can't do that. Or at least you've chosen not to.
I gave you reasons why it is wrong to take life and since you offered no rebuttal to that assessment, you necessarily concede that point.
If you wish to contest that, do so now. I await your argument that it is not morally wrong to take like without need.

[quote]We as society agree that human life has value. Killing animals to eat them is not taking a life unnecessarily. [/quote]

Wrong and wrong.
Well, half wrong and wrong lol.
As a society we've still agreed that hurting and killing animals without need is morally wrong. Punishable by law, in fact.
And no, it's not necessary to eat animals. Did you forget what we're talking about here?

[quote] That being unnecessary is merely your opinion. An opinion you have because you’re placing more value on a cow’s life than a typical person would.[/quote]

Wrong.
It is not my opinion that it is unnecessary. It's a fact.
You can obtain the protein you need and even many of the flavours you desire from plant-based meat substitutes.
Fact.
That's not based on me valuing non human life. That's based on the fact that you can get what you need without killing a cow to do it.

@Native Are you implying that you only feel personally that raping a child is wrong but think it's a personal choice or something?