Finding peace alone.

@fakable They do not do the same thing. Illusions hold no power over those aware of them. Reality will always hold the power regardless of how much it is or isn’t acknowledged.

@Reject

the process of consciousness is the process of creating the illusion of your being based on "real reality" inputs.

you have no control over the mechanism of consciousness because you are a product of the activity of that mechanism.

nor do you control the input signals that come from "real reality" and are the basis for the formation of the illusory reality of your being.

if you have no control over the source of your being, you cannot claim to have freedom of choice.

this is the law of cause and effect.

@fakable It’s true that people often create an illusory state of consciousness from real inputs, but not always. Yes, you cannot control the source of your being, but you can control what you do with the information you gained from it. That is the freedom of choice. Simply because you can’t help a cause, doesn’t mean you can’t do anything about it’s effect. You decide how you’re effected even if you can’t prevent being affected.

@Reject

these things people either understand or don't understand. it makes no sense to explain.

good luck to you.

@fakable True enough. There’s very few who understand me. I wonder if that’s the same for you? Either way, as long as we make sense to ourselves and we’re happy with that, this is what matters.

@fakable i think i can see where youre coming from with 'reality ' that we consciously experience .
But i feel @Reject has a point that consciousness also deals with levels of perception .

The same thing could happen to both of us in our conscious reality, yet we could both have different ways of percieveing said reality .

Perceived freedom isnt the same as real freedom no matter what some great philosophers propose.
Perceived freedom is a delusion that the paramters we work within are totally normal, and acceptable .

Real freedom is to see beyond the preconceived or conditioned parameters, and being able to make decisions beyond the conceptual norm.

Its like, how everyone is so caught up in valuing ones ego on physical things , yet gurus care naught for these things.
Who is free? The millionaire who has the freedom to buy all the impressive stuff, or the poor man who doesnt want all that stuff ?

Consciousness isnt something that has a single level. So reality can be perceived from multifaceted viewpoints.

And for spiritual people, the whole point is to become one with ones source of being , and not a slave of it, or worse, ignorant of it completely.

So yes, we can't control our 'real' physical reality, but we can change our perception of it and what it means.
And it takes consciousness to do this. It takes a greater perspective, a broader view : to go beyond conditioned thinking and step into a greater reality that the physical world isn't the only world there is:
That we are more than just meat bags with nerves and neurons😅

@OogieBoogie

the same thing cannot happen to both of us. it is impossible because there is a principle of uniqueness. this principle is unbreakable.

true freedom implies the absence of consciousness. the absence of cause. it is the principle of pure will. it is the principle of first cause.

to become one with the source of being is to become pure will of the first cause. this burns out consciousness completely. if you can still be conscious that you are pure free will of the first cause, then this is only the closest you can get to that state. there is a second option, but I will not describe it, as it is not important here.

the pure will of the prime cause is always devoid of the observer, as it is indivisible and unified.there is an energy spectrum.

physical matter is a small part of this spectrum. physical bodies are phantom spacesuits worn on consciousness. they are filters of the spectrum and transform a small part of the spectrum into your inner and outer world, body, brain.

human free will is an illusion. however, you can approach the original.

you must understand that this is considered hacking of human "reality" and usually, but not always, such actions are severely punished.

@fakable im curious as to where yoi found all this ....do you have a link?

Id like to look into this and understand it more .

@OogieBoogie

there is no single link. there are many sources.

if your individual consciousness is limited by the world your consciousness creates, then the illusion of free will will be perceived as reality.

@fakable im guessing this is classical philosophy along the lines of Satre and Husserl etc ?
If you coukd give me any sort of names or leads, or titles to research id really apprecciate it .
Stuff like this, one has to sort of immerse themselves in, to really wrap ones head around it.

The baisc concepts you have shared seem facinating, i genuinely would love to comprehend this better.

What we are, how we are is so intriguing to me .
I mean even consciousness is such an abstract concept, that there seems to be no one definition, and sometimes is split into more types of idenity/process.

Its this intangible thing that seems to elude mankind, yet draws us in with such desire to know.

@OogieBoogie
consciousness is consciousness. human consciousness is consciousness limited to human existence.

i would be happy to give references to sources, but I don't have them.

@fakable that's ok. I was just hoping to follow this up more and wrap my head around it.

But i did have a thought : maybe freedom is actually giving up trying to control ones life. Maybe freedom is about going with the flow, and not worrying about parameters, what we know and dont know , and trusting just being.🤷‍♀️

@OogieBoogie

i think you might find this thought helpful...

there is a descriptive language in the field of consciousness. the descriptive language of consciousness describes objects of consciousness and relations between objects of consciousness. objects of consciousness are thoughts. in the field of consciousness there is thought about consciousness. thought. only thought.


when you think - you operate only with thoughts. you do not operate with reality. therefore, nothing real exists in the field of consciousness, in the field of your thinking.

there is nothing real in reality that is called consciousness. thought of consciousness exists only in consciousness.

in this sense, consciousness creates itself.

If you understand this, you will understand many other things.

@fakable thanks....appreciate that👍

@OogieBoogie The basis of all her thinking is that cause and effect are one and the same and with that absolute there is no ability understand more. It’s very limited and leaves no room to grow. I think you’re a much more open person, so philosophies that aren’t a dead end and still leave room to expand would probably be more to your liking as they are to mine.

@Reject
all is one. separation is artificial and illusory.

i don't understand why this upsets you. if you want, i can show you how you can philosophically play with this model indefinitely.

i'm not a philosopher. i don't like wisdom.

@fakable I know that’s how you see things. No worries though! I’m not upset at all. Why would I be? I was just trying to help a friend understand that’s how you see things.

@Reject well that does help.

Im open to lots of philosophies.

I have this thing where, if its new, i deliberately try to open my mind and accept it .....and see how it settles. Sometimes it does, sometimes a few aspects do, and sometimes it gets rejected .

One doesnt know till one tries right?🤗
I still have no concrete conclusions to what we are, how we work, if or where we are destined to go .
But i enjoy that . I enjoy learning and evolving within myself.


Identity is such a complex thing. Philosphically, spiritually, life-wise.

Even when people have been reduced down to just consciousness, its odd how it still can be self serving, or it can be altruistic.
I think consciousness is an eternal cycle of oneness and separation, and to a degree, we do get variations of freedoms of choice within that cycle.

...but this part of it: corporeal exhistence , is the hardest one .
But its also the most exciting and challenging .

@fakable so you accept there is no freedom, everything is preordained?

There is no try, its just be?

@OogieBoogie

you are correct in your observation... variations within a cycle. variations exist. within a cycle. within a certain coordinate system.

metaphorical spatial model...

Imagine spheres nested in each other. the properties of the outer spheres determine the rules for the spheres nested in them. each sphere has its own level of consciousness.

you live in one of the nested spheres. the understanding available to you is defined and limited by the consciousness of that sphere. you cannot consciously perceive the outer sphere. for your consciousness, the outer sphere simply will not exist, although it is the outer sphere that creates you and your consciousness.

you are free within your sphere, because you do not perceive the strict limitations imposed on you by the properties of the outer sphere.

you are not free from the source of your existence. from the properties of the external sphere, which is your source of being.

now you can answer your own question.

@fakable ah, yep, like dimensional levels. Yep, this is familar ground.

Thankyou for that explanation. And now i see where you meant we are limited, and i agree.

But i must admit that i ponder, since existence of consciousness isnt limited by physical reality, nor time/space, maybe, just maybe, we arent limited by this dimensional reality we are 'born' into .
And thus, see beyond our 'reality' our bodies are stuck in - giving us greater perception to make choices.

I mean, if consciousness is a cycle, its 'life' is therefore infinitely longer than a mere human lifespan.

So if one could gain experience or knowledge from higher planes, it could change ones perspective from getting wrapped up in inconsquential battles, to focus on the bigger picture of the war so to speak: thus, perhaps, giving one a better freedom of choice.

Which i know youre prolly gonna say isnt a freedom of choice at all, its more just levelling up to a whole new set of limitations set within a higher reality 😅....which it is.

But surely more freedom is better than less, even if it isnt complete.🤷‍♀️

@OogieBoogie

you already know everything.