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newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Anton says that:
Well, let's see some of that evidence and see if he can offer a better explanation of it.
All species carry ‘silenced’ genes… these are genes that once caused certain proteins to be produced, but now no longer function in the original manner. Such genes are called pseudogenes.
Nearly all mammals have functional genes for expressing an enzyme (L-guluno-γ-lactone oxidase) that allows the production of vitamin C, which is essential for proper metabolism.
I say ‘nearly all mammals’ because primates cannot produce their own vitamin C.
In humans, there is a set of four genes that code for vitamin C production. As you may know, these genes are composed of many, many smaller units called nucleotides, so these four genes contain a very large number of such nucleotides (the human genome is not very large, but nevertheless has 64 billion nucleotides}. The first three genes are fully functional, but the final gene in the sequence has a mutation in a single nucleotide, and this mutation prevents the sequence from completing. That’s why humans need to obtain vitamin C from their food… because the mechanism for producing it has become a pseudogene.
Across all primates (chimpanzees, bononbo, humans, and apes) not only is it the final gene in the sequence that is silenced, but within that gene the same nucleotide carries the mutation that is responsible.
Now, why would this be?
1. astonishing coincidence
2. when the gods created all the species they put genetic pathways for vitamin C production into all mammals, but then inactivated a single nucleotide from among the four genes necessary for that production, inactivated the same nucleotide in all cases, and did that only in primates. They obviously thought this to be a tremendous joke to play, because we carry around 2,000 such pseudogenes.
3. All mammals developed the ability to produce vitamin C, but around 40 million years ago, in the ancestor common to all primates, that ability was removed by a mutation in a single nucleotide, and the deficit was passed to all primates due to common descent during evolution.
Make your choice, Anton
There are no "evidence" for Evolution
Well, let's see some of that evidence and see if he can offer a better explanation of it.
All species carry ‘silenced’ genes… these are genes that once caused certain proteins to be produced, but now no longer function in the original manner. Such genes are called pseudogenes.
Nearly all mammals have functional genes for expressing an enzyme (L-guluno-γ-lactone oxidase) that allows the production of vitamin C, which is essential for proper metabolism.
I say ‘nearly all mammals’ because primates cannot produce their own vitamin C.
In humans, there is a set of four genes that code for vitamin C production. As you may know, these genes are composed of many, many smaller units called nucleotides, so these four genes contain a very large number of such nucleotides (the human genome is not very large, but nevertheless has 64 billion nucleotides}. The first three genes are fully functional, but the final gene in the sequence has a mutation in a single nucleotide, and this mutation prevents the sequence from completing. That’s why humans need to obtain vitamin C from their food… because the mechanism for producing it has become a pseudogene.
Across all primates (chimpanzees, bononbo, humans, and apes) not only is it the final gene in the sequence that is silenced, but within that gene the same nucleotide carries the mutation that is responsible.
Now, why would this be?
1. astonishing coincidence
2. when the gods created all the species they put genetic pathways for vitamin C production into all mammals, but then inactivated a single nucleotide from among the four genes necessary for that production, inactivated the same nucleotide in all cases, and did that only in primates. They obviously thought this to be a tremendous joke to play, because we carry around 2,000 such pseudogenes.
3. All mammals developed the ability to produce vitamin C, but around 40 million years ago, in the ancestor common to all primates, that ability was removed by a mutation in a single nucleotide, and the deficit was passed to all primates due to common descent during evolution.
Make your choice, Anton
Anton · 61-69, M
@newjaninev2 Before we jump into elaborate discussions about genes and proteins and metabolites and DNA/RNA and macro-and-micromolecules etc, lets start at the beginning, that is where Evolution starts, isn't it?...in the beginning. How did "life" come about. And please don't tell me rocks started walking around in primordial soup.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Anton The origin of life is called biogenesis, and it's a completely different topic from evolution.
Abiogenesis concerns itself with how life began.
Evolution explains what happened after life began.
Abiogenesis concerns itself with how life began.
Evolution explains what happened after life began.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Anton it might help you if the terms we're using are defined:
1. Life is a self-sustaining chemical system capable of Darwinian evolution.
2. Evolution is change in the frequency and distribution of alleles.
If any of those terms are unfamiliar to you, please just say so and I'll define them for you.
1. Life is a self-sustaining chemical system capable of Darwinian evolution.
2. Evolution is change in the frequency and distribution of alleles.
If any of those terms are unfamiliar to you, please just say so and I'll define them for you.
Anton · 61-69, M
@newjaninev2 No. Evolution does not start when an ape is experimented upon and through gain of function experiments grow five giraffe legs out of it's tail. Start at the beginning, To help you, I have included an Evolution diagram and circled where we kick off from because you apparently are not very clued up with the whole Evolution Theory.
[image/video deleted]
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@AntonThe idea of 'links in a chain' is not... never has been... a part of the theory of evolution. it's simply not needed, not to mention just plain wrong. It seems to be something that's found mainly in creationist indoctrination pamphlets. They often contain that ridiculous image of some sort of monkey slowly morphing into another figure which morphs into yet another figure, ending with a human. Of course, that has nothing to do with evolution. It’s a specious straw-man.
In short... that's simply not how evolution works. As you will be aware, different species share common ancestors, so that there is a series of divergences between any two species... and the evidence for that process is overwhelming.
Let’s begin with species, and once we’re clear about what we mean by that word, we can better discuss what evolution is, and how it works. When talking about the concept of species, the first problem that seems to pop up is Essentialism. This is a hangover from Plato, who thought that every triangle (for example) was but an imperfect shadow of some essential triangle that existed in some or other conceptual space.
Ernst Mayr has pointed out that this same thinking seems to appear when people think about species… as if there’s some quintessential rabbit, against which it can be assessed whether or not any given organism is, or is not, a rabbit.
But a species should never be seen as representing some gigantic and sudden leap from something to something else. There is no magical point in time where biological differences allow separate species classifications. If you don’t understand this, then you’ll be be unable to understand evolution. (This appears to be the source of the creationist error that asks ‘where are the transitional fossils?’ without any awareness that all fossils are transitional fossils).
The closest we can come to the quintessential rabbit would be a specimen that sits in the centre of a vast number of bell-shaped distributions… a vast number because those distributions can address so many features (number of paws, size of paws, number of ears, size of ears, ability to leap, mechanics of leaping, tendency to leap, ability to digest grass, presence of whiskers, number of whiskers, nature of whiskers, muscular control of whiskers, etc… hundreds of thousands of such distributions would only be scratching the surface)
These distributions shift with time. That’s important, so I’ll repeat it...these distributions shift with time. Over a large number of generations the distribution of ear lengths may (will) change, with ear lengths gradually becoming longer and longer (as an example… they may well move in the other direction). Eventually, the new distribution may not in any way overlap with the previous distribution… the longest ear length of the previous distribution will still be shorter than the shortest ear length of the current distribution. Here’s the question. How many distributions need to change, and to what degree, before the cloud of distributions we thought of as a ‘quintessential’ rabbit now forms a different ‘quintessential’ something else?
In short... that's simply not how evolution works. As you will be aware, different species share common ancestors, so that there is a series of divergences between any two species... and the evidence for that process is overwhelming.
Let’s begin with species, and once we’re clear about what we mean by that word, we can better discuss what evolution is, and how it works. When talking about the concept of species, the first problem that seems to pop up is Essentialism. This is a hangover from Plato, who thought that every triangle (for example) was but an imperfect shadow of some essential triangle that existed in some or other conceptual space.
Ernst Mayr has pointed out that this same thinking seems to appear when people think about species… as if there’s some quintessential rabbit, against which it can be assessed whether or not any given organism is, or is not, a rabbit.
But a species should never be seen as representing some gigantic and sudden leap from something to something else. There is no magical point in time where biological differences allow separate species classifications. If you don’t understand this, then you’ll be be unable to understand evolution. (This appears to be the source of the creationist error that asks ‘where are the transitional fossils?’ without any awareness that all fossils are transitional fossils).
The closest we can come to the quintessential rabbit would be a specimen that sits in the centre of a vast number of bell-shaped distributions… a vast number because those distributions can address so many features (number of paws, size of paws, number of ears, size of ears, ability to leap, mechanics of leaping, tendency to leap, ability to digest grass, presence of whiskers, number of whiskers, nature of whiskers, muscular control of whiskers, etc… hundreds of thousands of such distributions would only be scratching the surface)
These distributions shift with time. That’s important, so I’ll repeat it...these distributions shift with time. Over a large number of generations the distribution of ear lengths may (will) change, with ear lengths gradually becoming longer and longer (as an example… they may well move in the other direction). Eventually, the new distribution may not in any way overlap with the previous distribution… the longest ear length of the previous distribution will still be shorter than the shortest ear length of the current distribution. Here’s the question. How many distributions need to change, and to what degree, before the cloud of distributions we thought of as a ‘quintessential’ rabbit now forms a different ‘quintessential’ something else?
Anton · 61-69, M
@newjaninev2 You don't have to start with the Big Bang Theory. Start where life "emerged" from muddy soup. Here is another link to DARWIN'S THEORY OF EVOLUTION... https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a34649466/primordial-soup-theory-origins-of-life-darwin/
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Anton I have aleady explained to you that the discussion here is about evolution, and abiogenesis is a completely different topic.
Please stay on topic
Please stay on topic
Anton · 61-69, M
I am on topic. You choose to jump from the proposed 13 billion years ago Big Bang to an imaginary 2,5 million years ago when apes had human babies and from there you jump to yesterday when Anthony Fauci manipulated Corona Viruses with gain of function experiments and thereby want to convince me of a silly theory that had been debunked years ago both by advances in DNA and RNA research, geological sciences and various other facts. Explain Origins of Life, which forms part of the Evolution Theory. Then we can discuss why the tail bone of a whale looks like the swelling of arthritis on my big toe.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Anton Nothing you have written here is coherent, reasoned, rational, or even close to reality.
I therefore assume you are simply seeking to waste everyone's time, especially in light of the fact that you have not replied to the content of any of my comments.
Deliberately wasting other people's time is unethical and juvenile... please find a different way to vent your frustrations.
I therefore assume you are simply seeking to waste everyone's time, especially in light of the fact that you have not replied to the content of any of my comments.
Deliberately wasting other people's time is unethical and juvenile... please find a different way to vent your frustrations.