Independence Day

@LamontCranston It's all a matter of opinion. I was impressed with Buttigieg's intelligence and erudition when I first heard him speak. I don't think he has a future in the Democratic party as his base of support is too low, so what you view as "pandering" could be sincerity. Do you think DeSantis is authentic? He's obviously trying to position himself as a champion of what passes for "morality" in the GOP these days - hatred of LGBT, total opposition to abortion, and white nationalism. If God forbid he's the nominee in 2024, he'll tack to the center as they all do. I haven't seen much of a change in Buttigieg's relatively centrist positions since he first appeared on the national scene.

I brought up Trump because we were discussing the authenticity of nominally Christian politicians. Trump, of course, isn't a Christian at all. He's an apatheist - someone who doesn't care if God exists.

@LeopoldBloom @LeopoldBloom That is a gross misrepresentation of Gov. Desantis' positions. I consider him a hard-working, achieving, intelligent leader who worked his way through school. Florida is a leading state in many ways due to enlightened economic policies.
He signed a fifteen week abortion statute into law which (in my humble view) is fair, which most people not extremists on either side favor and which is likely to become the norm.

@Diotrephes Technically, even white Americans weren't independent until the Treaty of Paris was ratified on September 3, 1783, when Britain formally recognized the independence of the former colonies.

@LeopoldBloom So, why isn't September 3 the nation's official Independence Day?

@Diotrephes Probably because July 4 was already being celebrated. But that's a good question; you'd think it would at least be commemorated. People mention the anniversaries of Pearl Harbor and D-Day, but Sept. 3 isn't even mentioned. I think I will start doing that from now on.

@redredred [b]Thanks[/b] for the additional color. I wanted to get the post up before the day had advanced too far and did not do the additional diligence to add that.

@MarmeeMarch Ever hear of Sally Hemings? You can't complain about Jeffrey Epstein and give Jefferson a pass. And we know you support slavery, so of course you would get your panties in a bunch over anyone pointing out the embarrassing fact that Jefferson owned slaves. That's not presentism, by the way - slavery was a controversial issue even when Jefferson was alive. Nothing stopped him from freeing any slaves he inherited. Even Jefferson himself recognized that owning other people was problematic.