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emiliya · 22-25, F
Europe is hostile to Russia. Wars happen when nations are hostile, but Russia does not want war with Europe. This idea has sprung from the imaginations of Europeans. It seems to be an illness that spreads from border to border, a plague. It has spread to those of European descent in Australia, New Zealand, and USA. These countries are filled with inhabitants who colonized them, who launched invasions against peoples who did not want to be colonized. Nowadays, Europe is busy filling its nations with other inhabitants while they live in paranoid fear of Russian invasion. They can have as many progressive policies as they want; what cannot be overcome is their desire for war.
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newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@emiliya russia returns to its 1991 borders and there will be no hostility.
Russia can make it happen today... but russia chooses not to do that.
Russia chooses to remain on Ukrainian territory and has done so for the last eleven years.
Russia chose war and now chooses to continue that war.
russia always plays the victim, but that will not protect russia from the consequences that will follow from their brutality and aggression .
Russia can make it happen today... but russia chooses not to do that.
Russia chooses to remain on Ukrainian territory and has done so for the last eleven years.
Russia chose war and now chooses to continue that war.
russia always plays the victim, but that will not protect russia from the consequences that will follow from their brutality and aggression .
emiliya · 22-25, F
@newjaninev2 What about you? Do you enjoy being an invader?
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@newjaninev2 And as usual you think the west should dictate the universe. Russia like any other country is not going to sit back and do nothing about a hostile and aggressive military alliance in an American puppet state on their border.
No, Americans made this happen when they chose to overthrow the elected government of Ukraine.
Russia did what it did because the US forced this situation and also by lying about every peace agreement with Russia since 1991 making peaceful negotiation impossible when the west made it clear no treaty is worth the paper it was signed on.
You also choose to continue the lie that people in Ukraine who refused to live under an American puppet government are all Russian. Because anyone who is not a vassal of the USA cannot be allowed to have agency of their own.
And again with that last statement you spelled USA wrong.
You Kiwis seem so eager to be good little American colonial subjects.
No, Americans made this happen when they chose to overthrow the elected government of Ukraine.
Russia did what it did because the US forced this situation and also by lying about every peace agreement with Russia since 1991 making peaceful negotiation impossible when the west made it clear no treaty is worth the paper it was signed on.
You also choose to continue the lie that people in Ukraine who refused to live under an American puppet government are all Russian. Because anyone who is not a vassal of the USA cannot be allowed to have agency of their own.
And again with that last statement you spelled USA wrong.
You Kiwis seem so eager to be good little American colonial subjects.
ElwoodBlues · M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow says
It was UKRAINIANS who ousted Yanukovych! After Yanukovych abandoned his office by fleeing from Ukraine to Russia, Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office by 328 to 0 (about 73% of the parliament's 450 members).
And what happened prior to UKRAINIANS ousting Yanukovych??
Some more details relating to the ousting of Yanukovych:
And what about this alleged corruption:
No, Americans made this happen when they chose to overthrow the elected government of Ukraine.
DUUUDE!!!It was UKRAINIANS who ousted Yanukovych! After Yanukovych abandoned his office by fleeing from Ukraine to Russia, Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from office by 328 to 0 (about 73% of the parliament's 450 members).
And what happened prior to UKRAINIANS ousting Yanukovych??
The Maidan mass protests—which lasted from November 2013 to February 2014 in Kyiv and many other cities across Ukraine—erupted when Yanukovych pivoted from a wide-ranging association agreement with the European Union to a similar one with the Russian-led Eurasian Economic Union. Ukraine’s move toward closer relations with the EU was the trigger for Putin’s Plan A: the transfer of Ukraine to the Kremlin’s sphere of influence. To stop Yanukovych’s deal with Europe, Moscow pressured Kyiv with trade sanctions, including an embargo of key Ukrainian exports to Russia. In return for joining Russia’s economic bloc, Moscow offered Kyiv an emergency $3 billion loan to shore up a budget drained of resources by Yanukovych’s corruption. At the same time, Russia pressured him to violently crush the Maidan, suppress the pro-Western opposition, and thereby alienate him from the West. Toward this end, officials from the Russian security services and Putin aide Vladislav Surkov were frequent visitors in Kyiv.
Some more details relating to the ousting of Yanukovych:
The preponderance of evidence suggests that it was Moscow itself that triggered Yanukovych’s departure in order to launch a pre-arranged Plan B—the invasion of Crimea and an engineered “uprising” in eastern Ukraine—after Moscow’s Plan A—a new treaty with a pliant government in Kyiv that placed it under Russia’s de facto control—was about to fail. Indeed, the timeline shows that preparations for Plan B were well underway before Yanukovych’s removal from office. All this, in turn, demonstrates that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s plans for Ukraine were far more predatory all along than merely preventing the country’s drift toward NATO, as many of Russia’s Western apologists contend.
And what about this alleged corruption:
When former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych fled the country following the 2014 Maidan revolution, Ukrainian citizens who stormed his Mezhyhirya mansion discovered a palace of cartoonish opulence with guilded bathrooms, a private zoo, and a floating restaurant in the shape of a pirate ship. A good illustration of this extravagance is the $11 million he allegedly paid for a chandelier and his seven tablecloths worth a staggering $13,000.
This private opulence was all paid for with public money. Embezzlement in the Yanukovych era is said to have taken the form of theft, corruption in public procurement, rigged energy prices, and misuse of carbon-emissions allowances.
Yanukovych and his associates, known as ‘the Family’, are believed to have embezzled as much as $37 billion and stashed it in bank accounts and company shares around the world, including in EU countries such as Austria, Latvia, Cyprus, Italy, and the Netherlands.
This private opulence was all paid for with public money. Embezzlement in the Yanukovych era is said to have taken the form of theft, corruption in public procurement, rigged energy prices, and misuse of carbon-emissions allowances.
Yanukovych and his associates, known as ‘the Family’, are believed to have embezzled as much as $37 billion and stashed it in bank accounts and company shares around the world, including in EU countries such as Austria, Latvia, Cyprus, Italy, and the Netherlands.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@emiliya It is brave of you to speak this way while your young men are dying on Ukranian soil. But your works would ring truer if they were not on Ukranian soil..😷
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@ElwoodBlues Still spreading lies that were debunked almost in real time a decade ago? Yanukovich fled after far right thugs backed by the US stormed government buildings AFTER a peaceful transition of power was negotiated and plans for a new election were in place.
We literally have Victoria Neuland on tape hand picking the "transitional government" right down to cabinet positions. We also have EU Secretary of Foreign Affairs Catherine Ashton on tape stating in no uncertain terms during a discussion with the foreign minister of Estonia stating it was a US coup that just used the Maidan as a cover.
We have others who were on the ground at the time like Jeffrey Sachs confirming this.
The US tried to talk him into destroying another Eastern European economy and selling it off to American business.
The recording of Neuland is where we got the imfamous "Fuck the EU" comment she is now famous for.
Funny enough that EU association agreement has never come up again since it was used as a pretext for the coup.
This is because the US and the EU both know what Yanukovich knew even back then that to re-arrange the Ukrainian economy to the EU would crash the Ukrainian economy and plunge the country into poverty and would be 90s "shock therapy" all over again.
And to claim that Moscow arranged the uprisings in Crimea and the Donbas is just idiotic. They only happened because of the US coup ant the attempt by NATO to seize the Black Fleet from Russia.
The uprisings in Donbas happened after neo nazi thugs the US used for the coup were sent to "pacify" the country. Part of why they were used is because at that point Ukrainians had not been sufficiently brainwashed that their own army refused to attack their own people.
80% of the Ukrainian Navy including the head of the Navy defected on the spot.
The coup government in Kiev also unilaterally declared the autonomy of Crimea void which was the only reason why Crimeans even were willing to remain in Ukraine in 1991.
And after the coup they also unilaterally declared neutrality of Ukraine void and with zero mandate from the people declared intentions to join NATO. If you believe that is organic I have a Trump NFT collection to sell you and a couple bridges on sale.
And it is hilarious that your last post tries to claim supposed corruption (which is worse now) in Ukraine justifies a violent coup is the exact same argument made by the January 6th clowns.
Good job.
It also speaks volumes that you have zero sources for your conspiracy theories. Very convenient.
The US took 80% of Ukraine and has run it for a decade. I guess only the US gets rewarded for taking over countries and gets idiots to pretend doing so is the moral high ground.
We literally have Victoria Neuland on tape hand picking the "transitional government" right down to cabinet positions. We also have EU Secretary of Foreign Affairs Catherine Ashton on tape stating in no uncertain terms during a discussion with the foreign minister of Estonia stating it was a US coup that just used the Maidan as a cover.
We have others who were on the ground at the time like Jeffrey Sachs confirming this.
The US tried to talk him into destroying another Eastern European economy and selling it off to American business.
The recording of Neuland is where we got the imfamous "Fuck the EU" comment she is now famous for.
Funny enough that EU association agreement has never come up again since it was used as a pretext for the coup.
This is because the US and the EU both know what Yanukovich knew even back then that to re-arrange the Ukrainian economy to the EU would crash the Ukrainian economy and plunge the country into poverty and would be 90s "shock therapy" all over again.
And to claim that Moscow arranged the uprisings in Crimea and the Donbas is just idiotic. They only happened because of the US coup ant the attempt by NATO to seize the Black Fleet from Russia.
The uprisings in Donbas happened after neo nazi thugs the US used for the coup were sent to "pacify" the country. Part of why they were used is because at that point Ukrainians had not been sufficiently brainwashed that their own army refused to attack their own people.
80% of the Ukrainian Navy including the head of the Navy defected on the spot.
The coup government in Kiev also unilaterally declared the autonomy of Crimea void which was the only reason why Crimeans even were willing to remain in Ukraine in 1991.
And after the coup they also unilaterally declared neutrality of Ukraine void and with zero mandate from the people declared intentions to join NATO. If you believe that is organic I have a Trump NFT collection to sell you and a couple bridges on sale.
And it is hilarious that your last post tries to claim supposed corruption (which is worse now) in Ukraine justifies a violent coup is the exact same argument made by the January 6th clowns.
Good job.
It also speaks volumes that you have zero sources for your conspiracy theories. Very convenient.
The US took 80% of Ukraine and has run it for a decade. I guess only the US gets rewarded for taking over countries and gets idiots to pretend doing so is the moral high ground.
emiliya · 22-25, F
@whowasthatmaskedman Why is Ukrainian soil important to you? What about your own misdeeds?
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@whowasthatmaskedman That is a bit rich coming from westerners and Americans in particular hiding across an ocean making Ukraine fight to the last Ukrainian for the interests of the Fortune 500.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow A can accept that the west is largely run for the moneyed few. Now can you accept that the Russian oligarchs are no different, accept for paying "protection money" to Putin?😷
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whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow False equivalence. I like that. Then go ahead and play your game where one side being bad makes the other side good. Both sides are greedy and self serving and until the people in the middle wake up to this they will be the ones paying for it.. there are no good guys playing this game..😷
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@whowasthatmaskedman That has nothing to do with anything. The world doesn't exist in the cartoon moral game of black and white villains and heroes.
And it seems you have an emotional investment here to play the "both sides game."
The bottom line is one side started this and now are hiding behind the proxy they used to do it.
And it seems you have an emotional investment here to play the "both sides game."
The bottom line is one side started this and now are hiding behind the proxy they used to do it.
ElwoodBlues · M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow says
And, the one side that started this is Russia! And Russia started this in response to the Maidan mass protests!!
Dude, it doesn't matter how many times you repeat your lie; it's STILL a lie!!
The bottom line is one side started this
And, the one side that started this is Russia! And Russia started this in response to the Maidan mass protests!!
Dude, it doesn't matter how many times you repeat your lie; it's STILL a lie!!
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Sorry. You are missing my point completely. I am never about the politics. I am about the economics and sustaining the society, no matter what the government is. And right now, Russia is unsustainable in a short term, and America seems intent on following them down a similar path. The only party playing a long game is china and they look like a winner...😷
emiliya · 22-25, F
@whowasthatmaskedman How does soil in eastern Ukraine differ from soil in western Russia?
The Europeans invaded other continents; they were not their neighbors. I am not talking about the Holy Wars, which were wanted by the eastern Christians, but the invasions of new and different continents for material and political gain. You are still in these places. What about their freedom and right to their land?
The Europeans invaded other continents; they were not their neighbors. I am not talking about the Holy Wars, which were wanted by the eastern Christians, but the invasions of new and different continents for material and political gain. You are still in these places. What about their freedom and right to their land?
ElwoodBlues · M
@emiliya Whataboutism is what you fall back on when you're unable to defend the actions of your guy; Putin in this case🤣😂


emiliya · 22-25, F
@ElwoodBlues Every living person is a logical fallacy. Maybe the dead are logical fallacies too. The modern liberal is good example of a logical fallacy. Humans tend to be desperate and irrational, so how can we not engage in logical fallacies? What about you and your slippery slopes? When did you jump on the anti-Russian bandwagon? You love to appeal to authority, don't you? Anthony Fauci is one of your favorite men.
ElwoodBlues · M
@emiliya Oh, look, now you've switched to personal attacks! You're turning into a showcase of logical fallacies🤣😂


whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@emiliya As much as you wish to shift the rules when you cant support your point, the facts are these.The Russian leadership decided to cross the border and attempt to take possession of another country. They sent missiles and aircraft to destroy houses and other buildings and drive people out.. The Ukranians resisted with force and people on both sides died. If the Russians had not been on Ukraniand soil, none of this would have happened. No one wins in a war. Its just a matter of who loses most..😷
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@whowasthatmaskedman And you conveniently ignore the fact that a near decade before that the US crossed the border and overthrew all of Ukraine briefly and one part of the country decided they didn't want to be an American client state.
Russia also spent nearly a decade trying to mediate a peaceful resolution and we have statements from Angela Merkel that the west very deliberately negotiated in bad faith and used it to train and arm an army to go to war with Russia.
And during that 8 years Ukraine declared war against their own people and was shelling them right up to the day the SMO started.
That statement alone implies that if Russia had not acted first NATO would have kicked off the war like in Georgia in 2008.
The simple fact is if the US had just honoured the agreements that ended the cold war literally none of this would have happened.
Russia didn't start this but after 2008 and the Maidan coup they are making damn sure the US "finds out" so there will not be another war.
Russia also spent nearly a decade trying to mediate a peaceful resolution and we have statements from Angela Merkel that the west very deliberately negotiated in bad faith and used it to train and arm an army to go to war with Russia.
And during that 8 years Ukraine declared war against their own people and was shelling them right up to the day the SMO started.
That statement alone implies that if Russia had not acted first NATO would have kicked off the war like in Georgia in 2008.
The simple fact is if the US had just honoured the agreements that ended the cold war literally none of this would have happened.
Russia didn't start this but after 2008 and the Maidan coup they are making damn sure the US "finds out" so there will not be another war.
whowasthatmaskedman · 70-79, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow You lost me at "a near decade before". Even assuming every word you say is true. Thats pretty slow for Russia to react. Throw up all the red herrings you wish. Putin and his ambitions got Russia into this mess and even with Trump in his pocket he still cant get that easy victoria he wanted to look like the strong man. So you are here waving his flag. I hope the job pays well..😷
PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@whowasthatmaskedman The US overthrew the Ukrainian government under the cover of the Maidan coup in 2014. As I said. Russia spent 8 years trying to come to a solution that was not war.
Angela Merkel herself is on record that NATO wanted war and they negotiated in bad faith.
Facts are not red herrings. It is not my problem if reality doesn't fit the cold war movie narrative.
No, NATO's 30 year conquest of Europe through colour revolutions and the like is why we got here.
And it is interesting you let Victoria slip. Victoria Neuland hand picked the Ukrainian "government" after neo nazi gangs stormed the government buildings in Kiev in 2014.
He did everything he could to avoid a war. I am here debunking decade old lies and bullshit.
Fun fact. Biden's CIA director is also on record in 2008 saying that forcing the issue of NATO in Ukraine would lead to war and is a stupid idea. And yet like a good lapdog he spent 4 years provoking more war.
I am politically consistent. I don't back far right client states. Pro tip. When nazis are on your side. You are on the wrong side of history.
Angela Merkel herself is on record that NATO wanted war and they negotiated in bad faith.
Facts are not red herrings. It is not my problem if reality doesn't fit the cold war movie narrative.
No, NATO's 30 year conquest of Europe through colour revolutions and the like is why we got here.
And it is interesting you let Victoria slip. Victoria Neuland hand picked the Ukrainian "government" after neo nazi gangs stormed the government buildings in Kiev in 2014.
He did everything he could to avoid a war. I am here debunking decade old lies and bullshit.
Fun fact. Biden's CIA director is also on record in 2008 saying that forcing the issue of NATO in Ukraine would lead to war and is a stupid idea. And yet like a good lapdog he spent 4 years provoking more war.
I am politically consistent. I don't back far right client states. Pro tip. When nazis are on your side. You are on the wrong side of history.
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PicturesOfABetterTomorrow · 41-45, M
@whowasthatmaskedman Again. How you feel about facts is utterly irrelevant. Your feelings don't matter.
And no. Fascism has a definition. They are in Kiev and run the government and have since 2014. And not just fascists by literal nazis. Even Radio Free Europe wrote an article about it in 2019.
The head of the Ukrainian special forces founded the National Socialist Party of Ukraine.
Trudeau and Zelensky made a Waffen SS war criminal wanted for war crimes in Poland a national hero.
And I see you are delusional believing that NATO is winning the war.
Losing 4000 square KMs in a year is winning apparently. 😂
And no. Fascism has a definition. They are in Kiev and run the government and have since 2014. And not just fascists by literal nazis. Even Radio Free Europe wrote an article about it in 2019.
The head of the Ukrainian special forces founded the National Socialist Party of Ukraine.
Trudeau and Zelensky made a Waffen SS war criminal wanted for war crimes in Poland a national hero.
And I see you are delusional believing that NATO is winning the war.
Losing 4000 square KMs in a year is winning apparently. 😂
ElwoodBlues · M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow says
Maidan was a widespread public protest by Ukrainians in Ukraine in 2013-2014. It was in response to Yanukovych pivoting away from economic ties with the forward looking technologically advanced EU and pivoting towards ties with hidebound Russia. Those were UKRAINIANS protesting all over the country. UKRAINAINS.
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow says
The US overthrew the Ukrainian government under the cover of the Maidan coup in 2014.
FALSE!!Maidan was a widespread public protest by Ukrainians in Ukraine in 2013-2014. It was in response to Yanukovych pivoting away from economic ties with the forward looking technologically advanced EU and pivoting towards ties with hidebound Russia. Those were UKRAINIANS protesting all over the country. UKRAINAINS.
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow says
Angela Merkel herself is on record that NATO wanted war and they negotiated in bad faith.
Where in the world did you source that claim? Merkel herself says she was working to AVOID conflict with Russia!Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel has justified her efforts to delay Ukraine's bid for NATO membership during her time in office, citing fears that Russia could retaliate, according to excerpts from her upcoming memoir published in German weekly Die Zeit.
Merkel, who was German chancellor for 16 years, described her hesitation over supporting Ukraine's Membership Action Plan, or MAP status, for joining NATO at a key summit in Bucharest in 2008, where membership for the country was eventually halted.
Merkel, who was German chancellor for 16 years, described her hesitation over supporting Ukraine's Membership Action Plan, or MAP status, for joining NATO at a key summit in Bucharest in 2008, where membership for the country was eventually halted.
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