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I Believe In Green Energy

I wanna talk about renewable energy for a second, specifically solar power. There's been a recent truism floating around about solar panels, claiming that they're not a viable option for producing electricity on a large scale because "they only operate at 18% efficiency." That statistic is true, but it's not the criticism people think it is. 18% efficiency is in actuality very high, but because most people don't know how "efficiency" is calculated when determining mass-energy equivalency, they think that it means solar panels are terribly ineffective.

Most methods of creating usable power involve converting mass into energy. All mass has energy (not all energy has mass though) and in order to harness that energy, you need to convert the mass. The three main ways of doing this are chemical reactions, nuclear reactions, and gravitational reactions. There's a fourth type, and that's antimatter, but we don't really talk about that as much because we haven't figured out how to harness the energy created by antimatter interactions, at least, not yet.

Any form of nonrenewable energy, including coal, oil, gasoline, petroleum, kerosene, propane, diesel, butane, and natural gas, are chemical reactions. And these reactions are so ridiculously bad at converting mass to energy that in my field of astronomy, we don't even count chemical reactions as a viable method of doing so. Chemical reactions convert [i]one billionth of one percent[/i] of the total mass involved in the reaction into energy. That means that fossil fuels operate at 0.000000001% efficiency. Suddenly, 18% doesn't seem like the abysmal data point that it did before.

So, why are solar panels so much more efficient? It's because there's no mass-energy conversion taking place. Light has no mass. Remember when I said that all mass possess energy but not all energy possesses mass? Light is an example of that. It has no mass. It does not take up space, it does not create a gravitational pull, it can pass through other sources of light without altering it. You couldn't, for example, fill a box with so much light that you couldn't fit any more inside. Wave-particle duality makes it clear that light IS carried by a particle, but like all force-carriers, it is a massless particle: the photon.

So solar panels don't require a method of converting mass to energy since light is already comprised solely of energy. All the solar panel has to do is harness it, and convert it into electricity. This process operates at about 18% efficiency, which means about 18% of all sunlight that contacts the panel over a set period of time is converted into usable power. It's extremely efficient, and does not produce emissions.

That being said, solar panels are expensive to produce and require the use of some substances which are difficult to obtain. So it's not perfect. But it's a hell of a lot better than chemical reactions like fossil fuels are.
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Budwick · 70-79, M
That's an interesting twist!

I'm all for alternative energy sources. I'm just not willing to step backwards in lifestyle to promote energy sources that are not ready for prime time.

I want to see a solar powered 18 wheeler to distribute products across the country. We need wind powered airliners to carry people around the world. We need alternative energy to heat our homes, provide light and fuel for cooking - I'm even willing to pay a little more for it - but it's gotta work. The alternative energy folks are making progress - but they ain't there yet.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@Budwick Avarice is the main obstacle. I know this from experience. When we decided to experiment with using geothermal power at my place of work, everyone was looking to make a buck off it by networking the design patents. It resulted in a terribly designed system that didn't work properly.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Budwick Wind was abandoned years ago. On the farm we had a windcharger. It was a windmill that generated electricity that we stored in lead acid batteries. Then we would throw a switch and power the house for a few hours until the battery died. When the power company put in power lines hooked to a coal fired generator we had constant power that ran the farm. Farm better electrically.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@hippyjoe1955 "Wind was abandoned years ago."
*wind farms are increasing in production*
gg no re

"It was a windmill that generated electricity that we stored in lead acid batteries."
Uhhhhhh there's your problem. You're supposed to use nickel metal hydride.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@hippyjoe1955 Make perfect sense to me!
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@Budwick Dude's using a car battery to store electricity that powers his farm. No wonder it was so inefficient.
Budwick · 70-79, M
@BlueMetalChick Yup, I believe it.
Someday, somewhere down the road, someone is going to find a good answer. Maybe it will be YOU! Good luck!
Budwick · 70-79, M
@BlueMetalChick Blue, there's no need for sour tones. First, he said it was years ago. How many even TRIED doing ANYTHING years ago? Clearly, Hippy is on board with alternative energy concepts, but as I've said - we're not there yet.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@Budwick No, no he's not. He's repeatedly told me I'm "clueless" and a "snot nosed college kid" for not realizing that the world can't get off fossil fuels, and that trying is a stupid thing to do. There's absolutely a need for a sour tone. For as long as I've known this guy he's done little more than personally insult me and tell me to fuck off back to Yemen and die in the Saudi genocide.

About six months ago he asked me to explain to him my personal theory on biodiversity so I spent twenty minutes typing out a detailed explanation of it. His response was to call me ugly and say I have big feet.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@BlueMetalChick It's not just you Zoe. Anyone who challenges his worldview or asks him to think even just a little bit gets attacked. I choose to no longer engage with him, but I do enjoy kicking back with some popcorn and watching you. ;)
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@BlueMetalChick and the birds and bars are being killed by them. They don't work as advertised either. Germany is moving to coal.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@hippyjoe1955 [quote][i][c=#003BB2]hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M[/c][/i]
"... Germany is moving to coal."[/quote]


[quote]SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS JANUARY 26, 2019 / 7:21 PM
[big]Germany to move ahead quickly on implementing coal exit
[/big][i]Andrea Shalal[/i]

[b]BERLIN (Reuters) [/b]- Germany’s ruling coalition will move quickly to begin implementing the recommendations of a government-appointed commission for exiting coal power by 2038, Economy Minister Peter Altmaier told German broadcaster ARD on Sunday.[/quote]

🙄
deadgerbil · 22-25
@sarabee1995 That's fake news, don't ya know?

[quote]RWE [German energy company], which operates several of Europe’s most polluting power plants, said in a statement Friday that it will now focus on generating electricity from renewable sources.[/quote]

https://nypost.com/2019/04/26/german-electricity-giant-says-it-wont-invest-in-new-coal-power-plants/
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@deadgerbil Exactly what I said.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@sarabee1995 Stop it, you're triggering him with those factual news articles. You're supposed to use REAL evidence, which is gained by making things up.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@hippyjoe1955 ...bars are being killed? I don't follow.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@BlueMetalChick Birds and Bats are being killed. Typo. Where I grew up there is now a huge windfarm. Hundreds of windmills all over the land. It is not unusual for me to drive through the area and despite a good strong wind all the windmills are shut off. Of course just north of the wind farm is a new natural gas fired generating station. It is there in case the wind doesn't blow or the wind blows too strong or..... Wind is simply not reliable enough and with the expansion of wind the number of brownouts we are having from not enough electricity is increasing quite dramatically. Wind and solar are blights on the environment both in their production and their use and to top it all off they are completely unreliable.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@hippyjoe1955 Bats. Ok, that makes more sense now.

Harm done to wildlife is a legitimate drawback of wind turbines, you're correct, but your claim that "wind power was abandoned" a long time ago is simply false. There's more wind farms now than ever.

Solar is by no means a "blight" on the environment. Wind turbines can, if considerations are not made, harm wildlife. Proper location is necessary to avoid this. But it's a far, far larger "blight" on the environment to burn coal, oil, gasoline, or other fossil fuels. These contribute to exponentially more damage done to the environment.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@BlueMetalChick Not false at all. Wind is not a reliable source of energy. Never will be. We need a base load that wind can not be relied on to generate. IOW as much wind as you have you need 100% backup or you will have brownouts when the wind doesn't blow. Simple fact. There is no where where birds are not common. The windfarm by my old home is on a major flyway/migration route where ducks and geese come to land on their semiannual flight to better climes.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@hippyjoe1955 So, then if you can't rely entirely on wind, rely on it as much as possible and use natural gas for supplemental power. At least it's a net benefit.

Or don't use wind at all. Solar and geothermal are more reliable and present less of a threat to wildlife. Or if you're near the ocean, use tidal power. Or even heat energy.
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@BlueMetalChick Wait. Stop the presses for just one moment.

Did the guy advocating for fossil fuels really just call solar fields a blight on the environment??? Did I get that right??

🤦‍♀️
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@sarabee1995 And that's not even the dumbest shit he's said. A few weeks ago he claimed Dylan Roof and Adolf Hitler were "progressive leftists."
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@BlueMetalChick [center]
[/center]
deadgerbil · 22-25
@BlueMetalChick It looks like hippyjoe doesn't have a clue about anything. Hitler being on the left? Germany 'embracing' coal despite them saying they're giving it up? The guy is in his 60's yet doesn't know a damn thing about what he talks about.
BlueMetalChick · 26-30, F
@deadgerbil I could type up a laundry list of shit he's said that is beyond retarded. My favorite one of all: he thinks Jesus was a "conservative capitalist" who "embraced free market economics" and "rebuked handouts to the poor."
sarabee1995 · 26-30, F
@deadgerbil Well, Hitler being left or right politically is a legitimate debate. The policies of the German National Socialist Party of the thirties were a mix of left wing centralized economic policies and right wing social policies. So both sides of today's political divide can legitimately claim he belongs to the other. 🤷‍♀️