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Trying to figure out the cost to each taxpayer of "Medicare for ALL". Serious math answers only please. Do not politicize. Any math professors out there?

It is understood that because we can't get firm answers from candidates who propose this plan on the percentage number that would be shouldered by the top 1 % percent of our taxpayers are guesses.

We've been told that the top 1% tax payers will shoulder most of the total cost of \$34 trillion. We don't know what percentage of the 34 trillion equals "most", but we can assume it will be approximately 60%. That means that 40%, (assumption), will be paid by the remaining federal taxpayers.

There are 1.4 million federal taxpayers in that top bracket, (or there were in 2015).

There are 134 million federal taxpayers in the remaining tax brackets, (or there were in 2015).

In 2015 we still had different tax brackets, and that is the only year for which the IRS provides data. Tax brackets for corporations might be 0%, because many corporations used tax loopholes so that they would pay no taxes.

In 2015, the tax brackets, tax payer numbers for federal taxes, and federally taxable income were as follows according to the official IRS chart:

0% bracket: 36,860,716 taxpayers, taxable income \$35,000 to \$40,000 per year

10% bracket: 27,400,094 taxpayers, taxable income approximately \$30,000 per year.

15% bracket: 42,195,123 taxpayers, taxable income approx. \$43,000 per year.

25% bracket: 24,009,141 taxpayers, taxable income approx. \$24,000 per year.

28% bracket: 4, 603,607 taxpayers, taxable income approx. < \$5000 per year.

35% bracket: 1,768,562 taxpayers, taxable income < \$3000 per year.

37% bracket: 176,838 taxpayers, taxable income < \$1000 per year.

39.6% bracket: 892,420 taxpayers, taxable income < \$2000 per year.

Tax laws changed in 2016, BUT the figures above still give us the actual number of taxpayers, and the 35%, 37% and 39.6% brackets contain the top 1% who would shoulder the burden of Medicare for all.

Because my math skills are SO terrible, I need a real mathematician to help me figure out who will owe what.

Bear in mind that the 34 trillion tax burden will be spread out over 10 years and what we need to know is how much of that, based on the 60% guess of how much is "most", will be paid each year by the top 1% and how much of it will be paid by middle class Americans, who usually fall in the 15% tax bracket above?
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in10RjFox · M
It may be a good idea to use inverse proportion.. but I am unable to understand the tax bracket %age..37% bracket means they pay 37% tax ?
4meAndyou · F
[@390760,in10RjFox] 37% tax bracket would pay 37% of their taxable income. Typically, the higher the tax bracket, the more enormous your income. In 2015, we still had lots of tax loopholes so that taxable income was written off due to depreciation, and for other reasons...and remember math is my absolute weakest point.

I did see a graph in one of the articles I researched, where in 2013 the top 1% paid exactly the same amount of tax as the bottom 95%. I assume that is no longer true. In 2018, 60 huge corporations, Google among them, paid zero in taxes.
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou] I don't think Math is the issue here, but logic. You are struggling to apply the rule logically. Calculation is later part. In such situation, we don't play with real figures, but simulate the situation in a simplified scenario, to test the logic and then apply it to the real situation. Also progress in stages, where you start in a summarised manner and then stretch it to apply to an individual.

It may also be a good idea to write down the objectives of the exercise, as one liners.

Example

* The objective of this exercise is to ....
* the high income group can be taxed more .. while the low income group to be taxed less.
* however the amount cannot be higher than their tax amount..

and so on ..
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou]

[quote]0% bracket: 36,860,716 taxpayers, taxable income \$35,000 to \$40,000 per year

10% bracket: 27,400,094 taxpayers, taxable income approximately \$30,000 per year.

15% bracket: 42,195,123 taxpayers, taxable income approx. \$43,000 per year.

25% bracket: 24,009,141 taxpayers, taxable income approx. \$24,000 per year.

28% bracket: 4, 603,607 taxpayers, taxable income approx. < \$5000 per year.

35% bracket: 1,768,562 taxpayers, taxable income < \$3000 per year.

37% bracket: 176,838 taxpayers, taxable income < \$1000 per year.

39.6% bracket: 892,420 taxpayers, taxable income < \$2000 per year.[/quote]

This I don't understand. Why is taxable income reducing for higher tax bracket ?

[quote]10% bracket: 27,400,094 taxpayers, taxable income approximately \$30,000 per year.[/quote]
Please explain what this 10% bracket means ? 10% of what ? if it's tax .. does it mean they pay only \$3,000 being 10% of \$30,000

And one with taxable income of <\$2000 pays 39.6% of \$2000 ?

Something is not right ..
4meAndyou · F
[@390760,in10RjFox] It is reducing because of the giant tax loopholes that were available to the extremely wealthy in 2015. The more loopholes and deductions they could find, the lower the amount of money that could be taxed. They employed tax lawyers and accountants to find every possible legal deduction. For example, Mitt Romney, a wealthy politician, keeps stables of horses, and he was able to deduct that.
4meAndyou · F
[@390760,in10RjFox] * The objective of this exercise is to ....
* the high income group can be taxed more .. while the low income group to be taxed less.
* however the amount cannot be higher than their tax amount..

The objective of this exercise is to determine the taxes that will have to be paid by the American middle class if we enact Medicare for all, which costs 34 trillion dollars and which will be paid over a period of ten years.

The high income group is supposed to be taxed more, and the middle and lower income group is supposed to be taxed less.

Both income groups are already paying taxes in the amounts shown on the charts.

The Medicare for All would be an additional tax, added to the taxes already being paid.
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou] okay.. so they pay an income tax based on their income + additional tax for medicare ..

if 34 trillion paid over 10 years.. = it would be 34T/10 each year = 34 hundred billion each year.

Divide this by number of tax payers first to arrive at average per taxpayer. And then the weighted average can be worked out.

And how much can I get paid for working this out for you ? \$4000 ?
4meAndyou · F
[@390760,in10RjFox] 😂 SW coins? Sure!!!
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou] seriously .. who are you doing this for? and why ?

why bother when there is no money involved ..
4meAndyou · F
[@390760,in10RjFox] We have candidates running for president in the USA right now who really want to do this. ALL American taxpayers who pay taxes will have to pay for it if it is enacted. The candidate who is proposing the Medicare for All bill if she is elected refuses to answer when she is asked whether or not the taxes for the middle class would be raised.
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou] And what is your role in this ? how do you benefit ? You are doing this pro-bono for someone ?

Hope you know as consultants we charge a hefty sum for such recommendations along with a spreadsheet or a program .. And this is not mathematics, for it involves a lot of analysis and what-if scenarios ..
4meAndyou · F
[@390760,in10RjFox] Well, no, I have no clue about math, mathematicians, what they charge, or anything about math. My calculator doesn't have enough zeroes on it for me to figure this out myself.

How do I benefit? In the same way that any other American citizen would benefit. I would know whether or not a presidential candidate is trying to lie to us, or fool us, before the election in 2020. We need to know this information..ALL of us, before we elect someone, go ahead with a program and then find out later...Ooops! Sorry! No food for you this year.

I am not a lawyer. I am a lady who works on family trees and genealogy. I don't work for anyone except myself and the families I help with my research.

I benefit...just like all of my fellow citizens...if I find an answer. Because then I will know if we are being lied to...again.

And don't worry about providing an answer. I actually have a friend named DrWatson on this website who is a college math professor, and he will help me if you will not.
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou]
I am not American, and if Dr.Watson is and has the ability to do it.. you are most welcome.

But I am just understanding you better, for some two decades ago, I stopped breaking my head for nuts, and I enquire as much before taking up any task. Its a world where people order in an impulse and never bother to pay or collect the item.

So to understand you, you are doing this for your own research and as public service to your fellow citizens.

Can we publish and make some money for ourselves by selling it for say \$5
OR go crowdfunding ? Since you say it is going to affect every citizen, which means they would not mind paying a small fee to learn about it.. and can protect themselves from being slapped 100s of dollars..
4meAndyou · F
[@390760,in10RjFox] Go for it. It's all yours...just make it public in the United States... and we need to know before the Democrat nomination in 109 days.
4meAndyou · F
[@390760,in10RjFox] Oh...and use Paypal as a pay option and then everyone will feel safe buying the information.
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou] No way.. you need to be in front.. and we are equal partners.. And as a citizen you can register in many sites and promote.. I can only be your backend support ..

If you have not explored crowdfunding sites... you can try gofundme.com to see if it works ..
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou] [quote]Oh...and use Paypal as a pay option[/quote]
Most crowdfunding sites give an option for downloads and collect payment on our behalf .. and remit amount to our bank direct. But you need to do some promotional activities, which I can also offer guidance.
4meAndyou · F
[@390760,in10RjFox] That makes me really nervous. I don't know how to do any of that. I don't think I want to...because I don't want to take people's money. I wanted to provide that information for free, as a public service.

If you wanted to profit, I had not problem with that, but I will not take money.
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou] Don't see it that way... You are serving people and they thank you with a small fee.. It is not for profiteering but a service fee.. and with that money you can do more charity work or help the needy .. when people are ready to throw money on cigarettes or beer .. why not collect it and benefit them in another way ..

People need help .. they may want activists like you who fight for a cause.. and they are ready to fund ... think of it that way.
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou] You can also make it 'pay as you like' .. where people download and pay what they like .. some may pay high .. some may pay low.. some nothing ..

And you can sell printed copies in public .. and they don't mind paying for it to read.. because you printing and circulating itself is a service ..
4meAndyou · F
[@390760,in10RjFox] Well, you can go ahead with that. It would be your brains, not mine, and I absolutely refuse to make any money by providing information as a public service.
in10RjFox · M
[@387713,4meAndyou] well.. forget it then.. as I told you .. I am not American nor in America .. Have a look at crowdfunding sites to know how people are raising funds for causes .. And you have lot of americans here .. you can ask their opinion ..
Carazaa · F
[@387713,4meAndyou] There needs to be no taxes raised at all. The politicians who say that just want to scare people. There is plenty of money to do what's needed in this country to take care of its citisens properly, like in all other western countries that are a lot poorer, no need to panic. Of course in those countries the politicians don't make a lot. It's not like taxes are taken out of their own pockets.

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