People that got the vaccine do you regret it yet?

@ArishMell Thanks for the information. I will make sure to pass it along to the 8 people I know that were killed by the vax. Oh right they are dead. Healthy to dead in very short time following their jabs.

@hippyjoe1955 I am very sorry about their deaths and obviously no-one could have wanted or expected those, but the alternative (no vaccines for anyone) would have been horrendous.

I lost a friend to Covid, but none to any vaccine.

@ArishMell No one died from covid. They died from medical malpractice. I know 8 people dead from the vax. I don't know anyone who died from covid. I have heard of two people who died but I never met them. My brother said he knew someone and my second cousin said she knew someone who died from covid. However they were not properly treated and both died in the hospital under medical care where they wee given the wrong treatment.

@hippyjoe1955 I don't deny some have, sadly, died from some horrible side-effect of the particular vaccine, and obviously we need know why (there were several varieties of vaccine for a start, were there quality-control problems, etc); but far, far more have died from the disease.

Many, maybe most, were already weak from other illnesses (as was my friend).

Your two examples though were of medical treatment errors; and those can, unfortunately, happen in any situation.

@ArishMell You are stating facts not in evidence Most 'covid' deaths were preventable if treated properly. Sadly effective and safe treatments were banned. I know a doctor who lost his license to practice medicine because he effectively treated 4 patients that were nearly dead. He lost his license but they all kept their lease on life. I am sure he felt it was a fair trade.

@hippyjoe1955 How do you mean, "banned"?

They might have been in Canada but everywhere else seems to have tried anything and everything to treat people who had ended up in hospital.

I don't know if it's been reported where you are but the UK's Public Inquiry into the Government's handling of the pandemic, started today. It may take three years though, because they have made its remit very wide.

(Talking of Inquiries, I've not heard anything lately about the Public Inquiry into the Grenfell Tower fire. I am not sure if it's still going or now at the Report writing stage.]

@ArishMell Banned as in lot allowed. A doctor prescribing it losing his license. That kind of banned. I gave you an example of one such doctor who used to practice medicine in small town Alberta. He cured covid of 4 people who were on death's door. As a result he lost his license since he used a medicine that was not allowed. The medicine is known to be safe and has been used for decades. It is over the counter in most countries in the world.

@hippyjoe1955 Yes, I understood what you meant by "banned".

It is right that any medication has to be proven to be safe as reasonably possible, though all medicines can cause unwanted side-effects and using one for a condition for which it was not designed can be extremely dangerous.

What I don't understand though is why a doctor would be struck off for, what, all right, may have been at best useless and at worst dangerous even for patients likely to die anyway, but luckily did seem to have work. Or at least did not make their conditions worse.

A better approach would have to have reprimanded him for using a drug not authorised for the illness, but then asking if in fact that drug can be used for that illness. That would include determining if it genuinely did in these cases or was co-incidental to other treatment - and indeed Nature.

Do you know what the medicine in this case, was, at all? I have by chance a pharmocopaeia, given to me a few years ago by a friend who teaches medicine, apparently to tell me more about some medicines I was on. This is a professional hand-book, telling clinicians what the medicine is for, its possible side-effects and when it must not be used.

(The myeloma-treating drug Thalidomide was an extreme example, perhaps a case reason, of why the medical profession has to be so cautious. It appeared to ease certain pregnancy problems, and it must have done for it was taken up widely without proper analysis, leading to an awful number of foetal deformities before doctors realised the link. Thalidomide is still used, but for what it was meant for, with the right and proper, stringent controls and precautions.)

@ArishMell The medication prescribed by the doctor is known to be safe. It is known to be effective. It was banned because it worked against covid. Covid was a bioweapon. The vaxes are a bioweapon. Maybe you have been asleep and missed that little fact. Kind of sad that we can't trust the governments that supposedly work for us. They are out to kill us.

@hippyjoe1955 No I was not asleep -I just don't believe the "bioweapon" allegation though I know it's a widespread notion.

I can believe the doctor was struck off, but for using an unauthorised treatment, not for treating the patients for Covid.

@ArishMell It is pretty much confirmed. It is long past just being a notion. The facts are that the US has bioweapons labs all over the world. Canada, China, Ukraine, Sudan etc. They are trying to enhance the lethality of viruses. SARS 1 & 2 (SARS 2 being better known as covid) were the result of such experimentation. You have been around for a few years. When was the last time the governments ever offered you the chance to win a million dollars if you got vaxed? I have never seen it. When is the last time you saw huge shut downs to prevent the spread of an over hyped cold? I have never seen it before covid. So what was so important about the vaxes? We knew very early on that covid was not very deadly. Despite the media's hype no one was dying if they received prompt and effective treatments both of which were available. So again what was the purpose behind all the nonsense? Why did the 40% vax rate ensuring herd immunity suddenly become 70%? Why was that 70% bare minimum vax rate? 85% would have been preferred. The only problem being that by that time people had figured out that the vaxes were completely ineffective at best and much more deadly than the virus at worst?

@hippyjoe1955 The notion of using as a weapon, a highly-infectious disease with results ranging from a "cold" to death with all sorts of strange varieties and side-effects in between, is just not logical, because it is so unpredictable and likely to be at least as dangerous to the user as to its intended victim.

The stark fact that we faced with a fast-moving pandemic of a disease new to our species, which even if not killing in vast numbers, was creating suffering and mayhem everywhere. It would have created even more if we'd ignored it as the anti-vaccination campaigners wanted us all to do. (That's why I call those campaigners, "pro-pandemicists".)

It's possible we over-reacted in some ways, with the lock-downs etc; and the UK has initiated a major Public Inquiry into how our country handled the emergency.

Even so we were faced with a fast-moving, potentially deadly disease new to humans; so very, very few humans had any natural immunity to what had long been endemic in some populations of wild animals.

The vaccine (which one of several?) much more deadly that the disease itself? Really? No.

It should never have been necessary to bribe people to be vaccinated, and I don't think many governments found it necessary; but it's easy to understand why it was in countries suffering from strong, home-grown pro-pandemic campaigns.

@ArishMell It is extremely logical if your objective is to kill people. The Americans have been working on it for years. Obama banned such research in the US so Fauci and company moved the research overseas. When the rumors started about bioweapons labs in Ukraine they were confirmed by American officials. There was a Canadian General captured in one lab in Ukraine by Russia. BTW the latest count said that there were over 40 such labs in Ukraine. There is also one or more in Sudan.

@hippyjoe1955 Oh, I know there has been plenty of development in many countries of pathogens and toxic chemicals to be used as weapons - banned years ago by the UN - but there is no evidence that the SARS virri are among them.

Rather cynically, if Covid is no worse than a cold as you claim, it's hardly a weapon. More seriously, if the Chinese genuinely were developing it to be a weapon they would not have published its identity as they did - though they did so only belatedly after trying to deny it for their own sake.

@ArishMell There is a ton of evidence that they were created in labs. They are not naturally occuring viruses. That was pretty much known the minute they were first known in the public. Covid is a spliced virus and has a part of the AIDS virus attached.

@hippyjoe1955 There is circumstantial evidence that the original SARS-Covid virus [i]possibly[/i] escaped from a laboratory where it and various other originally-animal virii were being studied, not only by Chinese but colleagues from other countries (including the UK).

Whether it actually did, and how, has still not been established, mainly I think because the Chinese government is just so secretive, and so frightened of losing face, that it is reluctant to let anyone in. Also its relations with the West, especially the USA, are now so poor it is hardly likely to be co-operative.

@ArishMell Circumstantial Evidence - old indian word meaning "denying the blindingly obvious".

@hippyjoe1955 Wrong definition, but thank you for that intriguing suggestion that the Romans colonised what is now Canada even before the Vikings "found" it......

@ArishMell The fact remains that you are simply denying the obvious. The vaxes were a disaster and the virus was not nearly as dangerous as advertised. The fact is that much of the world was conned by those whose belief is power. Sadly you remain conned. As the old saying goes, " it is much easier to fool a man than it is to convince him he has been fooled". Sadly you along with many others were conned into getting a dangerous injection that likely has shortened your life to prevent a disease that was not deadly enough to warrant such a risk.

@hippyjoe1955 I am not denying anything - I do not believe I have been conned at all, but neither am I an anti-vaccination campaigner.

I have been vaccinated - I forget if three or four doses now against Covid, as has almost everyone I know, which is actually quite a lot of people. Plus in the last year I have been inoculated against 'flu, pneumonia and shingles.

ALL medication carries risks, including the three I am on daily for other problems; but so does almost everything else. I had to drive a 60-mile round trip for my first Covid jab - frankly that was far more dangerous by risk than the vaccine. (Which I think was the Oxford-Zeneca one).

Shorten my life? By what? I am 70 but generally quite healthy. I am far more afraid of degenerative diseases or cancer than of vaccines.

@ArishMell So you are denying you have been conned despite insurmountable evidence that the vaxes don't work and do cause immense harm and were used to 'combat' a virus that was not very deadly. Those are the facts. If you don't believe me simply follow the episodes on youtube put out by one John Campbell who went from terror of the virus to relief of the vax to the realization that the virus was not very deadly to the realization that the vaxes are very deadly to the statement the having looked at all the evidence now he is very anti vax. He is very good at popularizing science. You might want to give him a listen. I think he is British and a doctor of nursing maybe retired? Not sure. Look him up and watch some of his oldest videos first just to get a feel for how far he has come based on the science.

@hippyjoe1955 Yes because I do not feel anyone has conned me.

Nor do I see any genuine evidence that I have, only allegations of it from anti-vaccination campaigners with their own motives.

I have been vaccinated, have no qualms about risking booster vaccination, have not knowingly been infected with Covid, I am still alive and that's what counts. If I was to be afraid of risk as you suggest I should be I'd go nowhere and do nowt.

I gather there have been particular problems with one make of virus, which perhaps is not very surprising given the rush to develop them, but I don't know the medical facts there. it is right of course that any vaccine is kept under review.

John Campbell.... not heard of him but I'll look out for his name. Actually I don't use YouTube so I don't know how to search it. I used to follow interesting links suggested to me but gave up after Google took it over and ruined it!

@ArishMell Yes Google is a problem. Youtube is very user friendly. click on the search icon then type in what you want to find. Youtube gives you a whole list of his articles. Give it a go. I don't follow links for the sake of following links either. I came to be anti vax after my brother in law was killed by the vax. Since then 7 other people I knew also died within hours of getting the vax. Occam's Razor cuts very close on this one.