Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, stop defending him

@BohemianBabe Okay. Here's your context. He married a 14-year-old girl who wasn't allowed to refuse consent, and then proceeded to have sex with her, again while she couldn't refuse consent. How's that for context? You going to justify that?

@LordShadowfire So obviously I disagree with the age of consent being that low, but that was pretty normal for the time.
There's also the issue of women being treated like property and maybe Sally Hemings was in a situation where she couldn't say no. But again, that was the norm at the time.

@BohemianBabe So you admit that she was too young and that she couldn't say no, but you still justify it.

Would you justify it if a politician today was caught doing that?

@LordShadowfire No, because it's socially accepted now that it's wrong. Slavery was also wrong back then, but I don't blame Jefferson for owning slaves. Now if someone owns slaves today, that's unacceptable.

I understand there is some grey area here. Should we celebrate people who did bad things in a time where those things were the norm? Keep in mind, if the answer is no, then we probably shouldn't be celebrating anyone.

@BohemianBabe So sexual abuse is okay if everybody in a society is okay with it? Is that what you're saying?

@BohemianBabe You are excusing rape of children....and slaves....and excusing the right of owning other human beings and treating them like animals, unless you wanted to have sex with one of the females.

Evil is evil. Making excuses for "that was accepted back then" does not cut it.

@BohemianBabe To answer your question, I don't think we should necessarily condemn Jefferson on the whole, just because he sexually abused a teenage slave. But we shouldn't forget that he sexually abused a teenage slave.

@LordShadowfire Not okay, but it's understandable that individuals go along with it because that's just how people are. I guarantee one day people will be having this convo about everyone who ate meat and dairy.

@LordShadowfire That behavior is abhorrent and not acceptable.

@JSul3
I'm not excusing the system of slavery and rape. I'm excusing the individuals who grew up in this society and just saw that as the norm.

@BohemianBabe That is like saying Hitler did some good things, like killing Jews because they don't accept Jesus. The Catholics agreed.

@JSul3 The difference is that mass murder was seen as wrong. That's why the Nazis hid the Holocaust from the public.

@BohemianBabe There was a time that lynching blacks was accepted too...but those doing the killing were 'fine Christians.'

@JSul3 Not really. That was illegal at the time.

@BohemianBabe So what I'm hearing you say is that if something is legal and society considers it moral, you're okay with it. End of story. Correct?

@BohemianBabe They did not hide it that well. The Pope knew what was happening. Many immigrants that were able to find safety in America knew it.
There were many US corporations doing business with the Nazis.

@LordShadowfire Alright, now you're just being an idiot.
I already said that the act is wrong, but it's understandable that the individuals do the act if it's the norm at the time. I think you understand this, you just want to feel morally superior. Grow up.

@JSul3 They knew that the Nazis were oppressing people based on race, which was common at the time. But few people knew that the Nazis were murdering people in the camps. That's the part that was kept secret. Look up Heinrich Himmler's Posen speeches where he talks about how the extermination of the Jews and Slavs will be kept secret.

@BohemianBabe Again...the Pope knew it.
American newspapers reported frequently on Hitler and Nazi Germany throughout the 1930s. At least 2,000 daily newspapers were printed in the United States in 1933, and most American households received one. US press coverage included reports on the Nazis’ persecution of Jews, Communists, and other political opponents.

Yet American readers could not imagine that this persecution would lead to Germany’s mass murder of Jews and other civilians by 1941.

@BohemianBabe Okay, maybe I am. Please educate me. If society says an act is right, and it's legal, are you okay with it? You use the phrase "wrong, but understandable".

@BohemianBabe Lynching was not illegal....especially lynching of blacks...in the southern USA.

@LordShadowfire No, the act is still wrong. However, the individual who performs the act shouldn't be blamed or condemned. I accept that most people don't take the time to examine their actions, the average person is just trying to make it through life.
And even then, I generally think it should be a case by case basis. We should take into consideration things like, what are the chances that they knew what they were doing is wrong?

@JSul3 It was, but it did happen very often because local police usually looked the other way. Racism was widespread enough that, while lynching was illegal, it was an easy crime to get away with.

@BohemianBabe Local sheriffs were in many of the photos we see of lynchings.
While not a lynching, the local police were part of the killing of the Freedom Riders in MS.
Local police were part of the burning of Black Wall Street in Tulsa, OK.

@BohemianBabe really you're defending a rapist???