Definition of Genocide

The term "genocide" was coined by Polish lawyer Raphael Lemkin after World War Two. The text of the Genocide Convention adopted by the U.N. defines it as "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, as such" through five acts, all of which must be present.

1. Killing members of the group
2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

At the insistence of the USSR, political and class groups were excluded, as the Soviets didn't want the perpetrators of the Great Terror or the Holodomor to be accused of genocide. This also prevented the "killing fields" of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia from being included.

It's important to use the term as defined, and not apply it as a pejorative to wars that people may personally disapprove of.

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Puppycat23 · F

From the comments I’ve received, people are now using the term genocide as any human casualties in war even if it doesn’t match up to being a genocide. But because people believe that there is a genocide happening with Palestinians, I do find it weird that countries that border Gaza aren’t helping anyone who wants to leave seek refuge. The two answers I get often is “why should it be other countries responsibility to take Palestinians in” and “that would be ethnic cleansing”. To me it sends mixed messages.

Besides that Only a handful, have been able to leave however: International visitors, preemies and families who have a child with cancer needing treatment. A stark contrast to how other countries were willing to help a majority of Ukrainians seek refuge after Russia invaded their country at the time folks were calling Russia’s actions genocidal.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Puppycat23 i don't recall folks calling Russia’s actions “genocidal”

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Puppycat23 the difference seems to be in intent. What are israels intentions here? To defeat hamas and let everyone else be? Doesnt seem like it. To free their hostages? Doesnt seem like it. Why does Netanyahu not want a two state solution after the war? The alternative is israel controlling gaza after the war. He either wants palestinians gone, dead, or wants to oppress them.

“From the river to the sea” is a phrase coined by israel. Israel says they care about palestinians, but their actions say the opposite. They make excuses for their own soldiers committing war crimes (they are stressed out) instead of punishing them.

Puppycat23 · F

@trollslayer

i don't recall folks calling Russia’s actions “genocidal”

I do. From human rights watch organizations to even the President of Ukraine who declared Ukraine was experiencing an attempted genocide.

The alternative is israel controlling gaza after the war.

If anything the military occupation of Gaza will be like the military occupation of West Bank, to decrease any chances of terrorist attacks since Hamas' goal is for more October 7th attacks on Israel.

“From the river to the sea” is a phrase coined by israel.

And there have been criticisms about it, just like there are criticisms about the phrase when Pro-palestinian activists say it as some people who chant it believe Israel should not exist.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Puppycat23 why won’t idf respond to claims they shot up a catholic church?

Puppycat23 · F

@trollslayer Is it under investigation?

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@Puppycat23 they have said nothing.

LeopoldBloom · M

@Puppycat23 The surrounding countries remember what happened the last time they let Palestinian refugees in. They attempted to overthrow the Jordanian government and contributed to the civil war in Lebanon.

Russia's intentions in Ukraine are genocidal as there were statements from Russian leaders about bringing Ukrainian children to Russia to "reeducate" them.

Puppycat23 · F

@LeopoldBloom

The surrounding countries remember what happened the last time they let Palestinian refugees in. They attempted to overthrow the Jordanian government and contributed to the civil war in Lebanon.

That’s what I’ve been reading a lot about. eventually Palestinians are going to have to accept that they’re never getting Israel. Not accepting a 2 state solution for the umpteenth time isn’t helping them, supporting Hamas for sure isn’t helping them, nor is killing Israelis themselves helping. Iran who backs Hamas didn’t want to fight in their war with Israel, and other muslim and arab countries aren’t interested either. And given that the start of this might have been because Saudi Arabia was normalizing ties with Israel, I wouldn’t be surprised if that becomes successful after this new conflict is over.

LeopoldBloom · M

@Puppycat23 They've been offered a state on several occasions and declined each time. My solution is for Israel to unilaterally define the Palestinian state and just cut them loose. The Occupied Territories have been a millstone around Israel's neck and are the main reason for anti-Israel sentiment. Since no settlement will be acceptable, Israel should just impose one. This won't satisfy the people who don't think Israel should exist at all, but they will be in the minority.

What keeps the conflict going is the futile Palestinian hope that they will eventually push the Jews out and get the entire area. It's not easy to say, but peace will only be achieved when they lose hope completely.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@LeopoldBloom Well, Israel's current PM says "No Way" to that idea. Why hasn't Israel over all these years "cut them loose" if they are a "millstone around their neck"? Seems they would have the power to do so. Instead, they seem to be insisting on pushing settlers into occupied territories in the West bank. So what's next?

LeopoldBloom · M

@trollslayer The answer is too many right wingers. But I don't see Netanyahu's career surviving this. Golda Meir was far more popular, and she had to resign within a few months of the Yom Kippur War. With the revelations that the government was aware of Hamas' preparations and dismissed them, Netanyahu is taking the blame for Oct. 7. The liberals already hated him, and the conservatives have no use for him if he couldn't even keep them safe. The succeeding administration is going to be under a lot of pressure to find a better solution than just maintaining the status quo.

trollslayer · 46-50, M

@LeopoldBloom I agree 100%. Internal pressure within Israel will force a different outcome. The other day IDF was showing big tunnels right next to the gaza border big enough to drive a car through, saying "look how extensive their terror network is!" But gee, didn't we hear about those tunnels in the 2014 war? And how they hell does Hamas build a tunnel that big right next to the border and Israel not know about it? From what I gather, Israelis are wondering the same thing. I don't think the Jewish population in the USA is being as critical, though, and that is probably affecting my viewpoint.