Wil America become a dictatorship..undeclared

@kimmy159 If that was the case, how comes we don't see this:
or this:

here (🇷🇺):

or here (🇨🇳):

@Elessar they deal with it differently but the end result is often the same. People can protest freely but does it always *really* change anything?

@kimmy159 It's not really the same or you wouldn't hear this nonsense only in the west.

It's just that people crying for oppression don't know what actual oppression looks like

@Elessar I don’t think I said anything about oppression. Just because it’s not truely democratic does not mean it is oppressive. It’s just very naive to believe you actually make a difference unless it matches some political agenda and someones power plan

@kimmy159 I didn't disagree with the fact that democracy isn't perfect, I disagree with "no matter where you are".

Where you are matters a lot. Russian "democracy" isn't anywhere the same as, say, French democracy. Not the same league, but not even the same game.

@Elessar what’s the point in arguing anyway 😂 I didn’t even say it’s the same everywhere. But however it’s interpreted, no place has a real democracy as the word means. Maybe one place has like 0% where another might have 10 but that was not my point 🤷🏻‍♀
In Belgium we voted for a government and the ones with the most votes is not even included in forming the new government. That is Belgium’s illusion of democracy. But sure we have a majority of all small parties together 😂 so it’s a “kind of democracy” and yes in belgium we then have more democracy than other countries I guess 😂

@kimmy159 Yup. Democracy is a lie.

@Elessar just likes to argue.

@kimmy159 The one that gets most of the votes isn't necessarily what most of the people voted for. N-VA got 16.71% of the votes, Vlaams Belang got 13.77%, and not even together they represent 1/3 of the Belgians - when 69.52% (i.e. more than 2 every 3) of those who voted cast their preference for other parties, parties that are free to form coalitions as they and their voters deem more fit. 2/3 of the Belgians expressed with their vote the will that the far-right nationalist parties shouldn't govern, and the majority of Belgians who voted got exactly what they demanded.

If you want to live in a system in which coalitions are not possible and the party that taken singularly wins all even when they get less than 1/3 of the votes, you're free to move to America and embrace their orange god. In Europe thankfully it doesn't work that way, the minority doesn't get to dictate over the majority.

@Elessar Cry more.

@Elessar lol first you put words in my mouth and now you say it’s bs 😂 very respectful in your arguments I see.
In the case of Belgium as an example, of course coalitions are fine but specifically here it’s not OK to exclude the party with the most votes. If you talk about democracy, then obviously the parties with the most votes should collaborate.
Lol Belgians DO NOT get what they voted for AT ALL. Maybe live here for a while yourself 😂 all we have is a coalition of parties who don’t get along and who all push their own agenda’s. Again, not as democratic as you’d think. They all act in their own interests and even form coalition with parties they do not see eye to eye to. But whatever to get the majority 😂 and you think a government like that is based on our wishes? Lol

@kimmy159 I put no words in your mouth, you're literally complaining in your very response because you think it's not democracy if the first party per singular votes isn't included in the governing coalition 😂 Maybe you're forgetting (or are clueless about the fact) that this is absolutely the point of coalitions: they exist specifically to prevent a party or minority that has <50% of the total votes to win against a fragmented opposition, when said opposition is compact enough to want a common front against that party/minority.

69.52% got exactly what they demanded: a government that isn't far right. Whether their coalition is solid or not is purely secondary to the fact the coalition happened.

Literally every far right campaign point is lunatic wishes about greatness and you're telling me the problem is that the opposition in a coalition system isn't solid? 😂 As I said, you're free to move to America or Russia any time, if you believe a system where 30% of the voters get to dictate on the rest unless they have a single common party is "more democratic" than what we have in Europe. Looking at the state of both countries I'll wait you here.

@GeistInTheMachine I haven't yet seen you protesting against Putin's lack of democracy. When you will, I'll care about the nonsense you have to sprout

Have you gone so far left you're wearing a MAGA hat now? 🤣

@Elessar Sigh I’m telling you that nowhere has a real democracy in the illusion that they make people believe that it is. Moving would be moving to another illusioned country of making the people feel they actually have a vote in something 😂
Even the coalitions that are formed with the parties that are chosen means that nobody can push some real changes because they all oppose eachother. They also don’t dare to do so to not lose votes. In other words: the changes that most people voted for, do not even get realized. The changes that do happen, nobody voted for 😂

@kimmy159 And I'm telling you that there's different degrees of imperfect democracies and whatever you have in Belgium isn't anywhere comparable to what they have in Russia or China.

So if you believe that, maybe stay at home next time instead of voting for the far-right? 😂 Yet, looking at the data you all went to the poll station en-masse.

No, move to prove the point that Belgium is the same as Russia. Also write on this forum, while being in Russia, without using a VPN, that Russians don't have an actual choice. 🤭 Even better, let's see if you have the courage to do that from China.

People vote for parties not for "changes". You'd know, if you actually live in Europe and ever saw a ballot.

That's what happens in the systems I mentioned and that you insist on saying are the same as here

@Elessar I literally did not go voting 😂
We can just agree to disagree 😂 but I’m actually not even disagreeing with you saying there are different layers and that we don’t have it bad over here :-)) I don’t wish to move, because yes it’s way worse in China and Russia. You’re busy trying to prove a point that I’m not even disagreeing on haha 😂. But that still doesn’t make any current system a true democracy imo. They purposely limit the changes your votes could bring by having that many parties to vote on. The more you disagree, the more it’s “justified” that nothing really changes. And that is exactly what they want all while giving people the feeling their vote counts for something. If you can’t see through that real bigger picture, then you will never get what I try to convey 😁 which is okay 🤷🏻‍♀ I don’t care about political stuff anyway. I’m not part of those people who have some kind of wish for greatness. It’s pretty stupid to expect that happening through politics too. I don’t think you expect that either, so I don’t get why you get so worked up over this convo 😁

@kimmy159 If you didn't vote then you don't have much to complain, lol. You're expressly saying that whatever others choose for you is good for you, so clearly having a better democracy isn't your priority.

You've literally said that "democracy is an illusion no matter where you are" and I disagreed with that point alone, citing Russia and China as quite evident counterexamples. If now you're in agreement with me on the fact that China and Russia are having it significantly worse then you're agreeing with me that "no matter where you are" doesn't match observable reality. 😁

Not quite the dynamic of how parties are founded, split, merge and coalize. Who's "they"? The aliens? 😆

Oh I absolutely see the big picture that politics in 1990-2000 was very different than politics in 2001-2009, and even more different in 2010-2016 and 2016-2025. If you truly think "nothing ever changes in the big picture" you're frankly quite blind. It changes especially in the big picture.

And I do because the topic as a whole interest me. Hence:
I'm not. I'm just having a fun exchange of opinions. Down here below the Alps we happen to enjoy heated up discussions 😁

@Elessar It’s good that you’re enjoying the discussion at least 😂 I find it pretty pointless since I have very different views of how I would contribute with my single vote to a system I don’t believe in haha 😁
Sure politics and results change over time, but you might believe it’s because of what people voted for.
To me this is solely because it’s what the “country’s leaders” had in mind as a direction for the country to go in. Which is good overall, but I doubt we have any “real” say in it ;)

@kimmy159 Be the change you want to see, get active, rally, form a party. Europe's current political system didn't rain upon us from the sky, not even 3 centuries ago most countries were run as absolute monarchies, people got fed up of it and change happened. Not even one century ago we had a dictatorship here that makes Russia's pale in comparison and that was eventually deposed too.

If you think it was the elites - and not the common person - who originally wanted to transition the past autocratic systems to the current more democratic forms, I've got a bridge to sell you.

@Elessar Heheh well in that case you’re rallying the wrong person 😁 the only party I’d support is me going on a world domination tour with a legion of minions 😂
It’s good that you’re passionate about politics 😁 I’ll leave the actual change to the people who are that passionate and who know the most about it ;) and you’re right about us not having it bad, so I wasn’t complaining 😁 there’s no immediate need for me to rise up to something with the people of Belgium 😌

@kimmy159 But people who are passionate/knowledgeable about politics have no realistic means to bring the change you want to see if everyone else sit on their sofa on voting day, especially if they have to counter opponents with infinite spending capacity and actual minions who'll vote for them en-masse.

Politics is one of those things that work better the more people are involved. If everyone sat out the elite and only the elite get to decide it (and rest assured those won't sit it out lol), and it's exactly the opposite of what everyone minus them wants.