Ukraine! (Title too short or invalid)

Russian advances (and retreats)
since February 24

Today (18 June) the lines stand in much the same place -- small Russian gains have taken place but they would be imperceptible on this map scale.

Russia is losing this conflict and has been since the end of the first week. It's stated goals when entering Ukraine were two-fold:

1) Denazification of Ukraine, a country with a democratically elected Jewish president.

2) Demilitarization of Ukraine, a country that had one of the smallest and oldest armies in Europe (that was then; today Ukraine has one of the best equipped armies in Europe and is growing stronger every day).

Those were the stated goals, but Russia's authoritarian leader has written much in recent years about Ukraine. He claims all of Ukraine for Russia and denies Ukraine's right to exist. He seeks to rebuild the Russian empire to the former Soviet borders. And he likens himself to Peter the Great, a cruel and tyrannical dictator.

Russia is losing this conflict and for all of Europe it needs to lose this conflict. As goes Ukraine, so will go Eastern Europe.

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SisterShadow · F

so... how can this conflict end ?

i dont think russia wil leave the occupied territories but i also dont think they can control them...
and at the same time i doubt ukraine would abandon them nor would theyas be able to recapture them.

so maybe a un controlled neutral zone in the donbass and in 2 years when things have cooled down have a un controlled vote where the inhabitants want to end up.

Elessar · 31-35, M

@SisterShadow It ends when the Russian Federation goes through the very same dismemberment process that the USSR went through, except this time they probably won't be allowed to rearm - think of Japan or Germany post WW2.

Unfortunately it's not something that happens overnight.

SisterShadow · F

@Elessar yeah thats not gonna happen... the warcrimes needed to get a country into the state that germany or japan were after ww2 werent justifiable then and clearly arent now.
that was like a one time history that wont repeat

Elessar · 31-35, M

@SisterShadow The USSR collapsed on its own, an economically devastated Russia may quite likely go down the same path. What happens next, nobody knows.

sarabee1995 · 26-30, F

@SisterShadow

so maybe a un controlled neutral zone in the donbass and in 2 years when things have cooled down have a un controlled vote where the inhabitants want to end up.

Is this "fair" when Russia has forced the deportation of the Ukrainian residents of these areas and repopulated the areas with Russians?? Your suggestion is exactly what Russia wants and it plays precisely into their strategy (practiced for hundreds of years now) of Russification of captured territory.

The truth is that Russia (and the US and the UK and many other countries) signed the Budapest Memorandum agreeing to respect the then current boundaries of Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine giving up it's substantial nuclear arsenal. Russia has shredded this agreement. So ... Perhaps if Russia wants the Budapest Memorandum to be non-existent, then we should station intermediate range nuclear missiles in Ukraine and let Russia keep Crimea and Donbass? Would Russia be okay with this? Budapest is either in place and the functioning document, or it is not.