People think there was never a Palestinian state. This is not correct.

@CountScrofula People think because one country or the other was their first, the other country doesn't have a right to exist. And I'm sure some people around here think I'm one of those, because I've used the fact that the original state of Israel existed literally thousands of years ago, but I only reference that to undercut people's complaint that the modern state of Israel is less than 100 years old.

@LordShadowfire There are millions of kingdoms that existed a couple thousand years ago. It's not like the Babylonians have an inherent right to a nation state or the Holy Roman Empire is due for a comeback. It's a Jewish homeland, but it is also a Palestinian homeland. Both are true.

Right now, the issue is that Israel has made it clear it intends to make Gaza inhospitable and ethnically cleanse (that is forcibly remove by death or deportation) the population there. After that, Israelis will take the land and settle it.

Looking at who had what country at what point in history to get a sense of who has a right to be there is a red herring.

@CountScrofula Which is why I only bring it up when people pretend that Palestine was there first. If you're going to go there, let's go back to the beginning.

@CountScrofula It's interesting that whenever anyone objects to calls for Israel's destruction, the response is "no country has a right to exist." No, but people have a right to organize into exclusive groups if they want, and if they meet certain conditions, we call it a country. But if you're opposed to Israel's existence on that basis, you would also have to oppose the creation of a Palestinian state.

@LeopoldBloom This is a dishonest mischaracterization of my argument. Let me try again.

When I say 'no nation has a right to exist' I am not calling for the destruction of Israel. I am, instead, pointing out that nations are made up and the entire Middle East is the result of Winston Churchill, a box of crayons, and a lot of wine. So the notion that some nations have -more or less- right to exist than others is nonsense.

I am again, trying to redirect this political showboating to the mass slaughter of innocents which has been unfolding for like nine months now. Israel must stop the mass slaughter. To do that, our governments must stop funding it. After that mass slaughter stops then the messy, difficult, and century-long solution to unfuck this mess can begin, whatever that looks like.

I don't know what deep, hateful racism has taken hold of your soul to devalue these lives so greatly and endless turn this back into some sort of "Well Palestinians never had a state - therefore we should murder their children." Like, what is wrong with you.