Yeah, you guys are right. All these colleges deserve to have their stuff destroyed and defaced.
Because somehow that will teach Israel not to commit genocide if I write "GAZA" on all the library computer monitors and break all the windows.
Top | Newest First | Oldest First
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
Israel is bankrolled by the united states. The US has the power to immediately put a stop to the mass slaughter of civilians. It is, however, highly reluctant to do so for all sorts of political reasons.
Protest in a democracy is a protected right because it is one of the most powerful forms of direct democracy and one of the first things that is shut down in an authoritarian regime. Protests genuinely do work, even if it may be a lot of just creating an atmosphere that affects policy decisions.
An unruly and angry citizenry who are taking to the streets and not being good little worker bees is a major impediment to the operation of the state. Therefore, this will motivate the state to change its policy.
Notably, the point is not to convince people, or to win some popularity contest with onlookers. It's to make the status quo intolerable.
Students are young, political, and tend to be the forefront of any protest movement, and colleges are where they do their thing.
The Vietnam war protests are probably the closest comparison in living memory.
Protest in a democracy is a protected right because it is one of the most powerful forms of direct democracy and one of the first things that is shut down in an authoritarian regime. Protests genuinely do work, even if it may be a lot of just creating an atmosphere that affects policy decisions.
An unruly and angry citizenry who are taking to the streets and not being good little worker bees is a major impediment to the operation of the state. Therefore, this will motivate the state to change its policy.
Notably, the point is not to convince people, or to win some popularity contest with onlookers. It's to make the status quo intolerable.
Students are young, political, and tend to be the forefront of any protest movement, and colleges are where they do their thing.
The Vietnam war protests are probably the closest comparison in living memory.
View 9 more replies »
Elessar · 26-30, M
@CountScrofula It is reluctant because the geopolitical equilibrium in the region is so fragile that it's extremely easy going from one shìtty (present) disastrous situation, to another equally shìtty disastrous situation, except with the roles reversed.
People on the left who believe that things will magically sort themselves out in the M.E. by simply cutting funds to Israel are about as rooted in reality as the people on the right who believe the POTUS has a magic knob in the oval office to control pump prices, or a button to seal shut the US-Mex border.
It's plain and simple populism, selling easy solutions for complicated problems, and getting people enraged when said solutions aren't implemented. And the lesson from this last decade is that it's demonstrably effective.
People on the left who believe that things will magically sort themselves out in the M.E. by simply cutting funds to Israel are about as rooted in reality as the people on the right who believe the POTUS has a magic knob in the oval office to control pump prices, or a button to seal shut the US-Mex border.
It's plain and simple populism, selling easy solutions for complicated problems, and getting people enraged when said solutions aren't implemented. And the lesson from this last decade is that it's demonstrably effective.
Elessar · 26-30, M
@LordShadowfire Ideally, in a vacuum in which Israel was the only regional power in the ME, at most. In reality, it would have a series of consequences for both countries that the US/west would rather avoid, starting from giving Iran (and proxies) an advantage and clear signal that Israel would now be on its own.
More than cutting funds I think they should be curtailed similarly to how aids for Ukraine were also curtailed: for instance, the HIMARS were given at the condition they couldn't be used to hit targets in Russian land. Actually enforcing that is another problem, however. But still better going by steps than abruptly changing the geopolitical equilibrium of the region, I suppose.
More than cutting funds I think they should be curtailed similarly to how aids for Ukraine were also curtailed: for instance, the HIMARS were given at the condition they couldn't be used to hit targets in Russian land. Actually enforcing that is another problem, however. But still better going by steps than abruptly changing the geopolitical equilibrium of the region, I suppose.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Bumbles · 51-55, M
The US public turned against Vietnam around 1968, but presently Israel enjoys significant US support. Over all. One poll had it 80/20. I would think that number flips with Americans in their 20s
A major difference is that no US troops are dying in the Gaza war, and there was no “Oct 7” when it came to Vietnam. Just look how the US acted after 9.11. The US identifies more with Israel than Hamas.
A major difference is that no US troops are dying in the Gaza war, and there was no “Oct 7” when it came to Vietnam. Just look how the US acted after 9.11. The US identifies more with Israel than Hamas.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
This is strawmanning our arguments and is logically fallacious. We never said we agreed with breaking windows, nor that we agreed with students not being able to graduate.
If you want to assign blame, assign it to the US government that has made the hitherto peaceful protests impossible. When peaceful protest becomes impossible, violent protests become inevitable.
If you want to assign blame, assign it to the US government that has made the hitherto peaceful protests impossible. When peaceful protest becomes impossible, violent protests become inevitable.
LordShadowfire · M
@basilfawlty89 You sure did get mad when I said that breaking windows and occupying buildings was bad. Just kept repeating over and over that protesting doesn't stop being protected when it "inconveniences" people.
But I do take your point about the peaceful protesters being treated as criminals. And also, yeah, I strawmanned a bit.
But I do take your point about the peaceful protesters being treated as criminals. And also, yeah, I strawmanned a bit.
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
@LordShadowfire I didn't get mad, I'm just reminding you of the point here. Occupying a building when the majority of Gazans don't even have buildings anymore is a bit tone deaf.
It's the exact arguments made against BLM and Antifa by right wingers.
It's the exact arguments made against BLM and Antifa by right wingers.
This comment is hidden.
Show Comment
RenFur · 70-79, M
I'm watching Hannity last night (I know, I know... I hate the guy, too) just to see what he had to say when the police were about to enter Hamilton Hall. He was worried for the police. I switch over to CNN moments later and the host there was worried for the students.