I just went to the UCLA Palestinian encampment, but couldn’t get very close.

@basilfawlty89 What about the students who aren't going to graduate because this is going on?

@LordShadowfire the uni can not me arses and allow them extra time. Protesting isn't only a right when it's convenient. Do you think the Civil Rights marches and the protest against the Vietnam War didn't have any civil disobedience?

@basilfawlty89 It's not protesting. These people are breaking university property. Breaking windows. Defacing computers. Destroying stuff.

But whatever. I guess PSU deserves that. For some reason.

@LordShadowfire I tend to worry more about dead Palestinian kids than a few broken windows, but that's me.

@basilfawlty89 https://similarworlds.com/countries/palestine/4999978-Yeah-you-guys-are-right-All-these-colleges-deserve-to-have

@basilfawlty89 I worry about the survival of Israel and the 1/3 of the world’s Jews who live there, and who are under continual attack from organizations such as Hamas, the elected leaders in Gaza. But maybe that’s just me. It sure as hell feels like it’s just me.

@Harmonium1923 I'm worried about the innocent civilians on both sides. But to hear these guys tell it, I'm an elitist first world MAGAt who only worries about university property.

@Harmonium1923 well perhaps Israel shouldn't committing genocide and ethnic cleansing.

I find the irony delicious that someone can convert to Judaism with no Jewish ancestry and make Aliyah, but Palestinians who've been there's for centuries get their homes demolished for said converts in the West Bank.

@basilfawlty89 No, but there's no excuse for trashing a historic building.

@Harmonium1923 I don't hold Israel to a different standard. I thought that Israel was the "beacon of democracy and liberty" in the Middle East, but Israel is committing genocide and ethnic cleansing. Any other country would be held subject to the International Court of Justice. You're the one wanting special treatment for Israel. If Israel is a liberal democracy, it should act like one.

@basilfawlty89 They are being held to a different standard. Assad, 200k killed. US in Iraq, 250k killed. The allies in WW 2 would take our 30k a night in air bombing. Tokyo, 100k killed.

Concentration camps in China. Silence.

35k killed in the middle of a war to go after Hamas, and they call it genocide? That’s a double standard all right, and let’s not forget the constant calls for Israel’s destruction.

@Harmonium1923 If you don't want Israel held to a different standard, then we need to cut off their military funding. Typically, we sanction countries that invade occupy others' lands (Russia, Iraq, etc) and do not provide military support.

And if we are to label Hamas as terrorists, then if we treat Israel the same, we must also call the West Bank settlers terrorists.

Fair is fair.

@LeopoldBloom Exactly. Protest is fine. But if I am against the Jan 6th folks for trashing the capitol, I have to be against these folks for doing the same.

@trollslayer The US opposes the settlements, and the US invades counties all the time. That’s not the standard.

@Bumbles do we support assad or china militarily? Perhaps because they are committing genocide. As for your WWII examples, those were before the genocide treaty and plenty of folks retroactively call them genocide. I do.

@Bumbles I just mentioned liberal democracies. Unless you're saying that Israel isn't s liberal democracy, comparing it to Russia or China or what tinpot dictatorship doesn't make sense.

Even if we take the US in Iraq as an example, two wrongs don't make a right. Israel doesn't get to wipe out the Palestinians just because the US has committed war crimes.

As for genocide, whilst the Holocaust was certain unique, so is every genocide and the Holocaust is hardly the first or the only one. The first genocides of the 20th century was the Herero-Namaqua Genocide and the Armenian Genocide.

@basilfawlty89 Well, many consider Israel a theocracy, but I take your point. And no, two wrongs don’t make a right, but the US was a liberal democracy at the time and was it accused of genocide? I’m sure some, but it’s conventional wisdom now to accuse Israel of genocide.

I don’t see Israel trying to wipe out Gaza. I think they have not been careful enough, but it’s a war against an enemy indifferent to collateral damage against their own people, with tunnels under the population.

The rate of deaths has gone up but at a slower rate. I have no issue with someone being critical of Israel in Gaza, but I think more is going on.

And I certainly agree there were earlier genocides than the Holocaust.

@Bumbles denying aid, suggesting ethnic cleansing, bombing civilians where a death toll of 70% of the population dead are women and children and the fact that Palestinians have been dehumanised by Israeli leaders tells a lot.

The Lemkin Institute doesn't give genocide warnings lightly, neither does GenocideWatch.

@trollslayer The kids never protested Asaad. They only care about human life when the US “funds” it? That’s a horrible thing. Makes me cynical in fact!

You may consider the US attempting genocide against Germany and Japan, but you’d be an outlier.

@basilfawlty89 . There are really high casualties, and given the nature of urban warfare and an indifferent enemy, it’s not surprising. And that Israeli defense minister is a monster, I agree. Gaza also has more children per capita than most places in the world, though. The statistics are going to reflect that.

@Bumbles were their universities investing i. The assad regime? They are protesting their universities investing in israel, not the war generally. They recognize the war itself is beyond their influence, but the funding of that war they can control. I agree that these protests and breaking stuff is counterproductive. But i say the same about Israels response to Oct 7th - it is counterproductive and making a problem worse.

@basilfawlty89 and keep in mind the genocide claims only use the current war as one piece of evidence. There is an 80 year documented history to provide context. And the question is, did the Israelis embark on a goal of forcing all non-jews out in order to obtain religious majority? Remember, genocide does not mean killing everyone. Willful attempts to destroy a culture count. How do you classify an attempt to change the religious balance of a region?

@trollslayer I stand by my original point - if they only care about human life when the US is involved, I doubt their sincerity. And no, they can’t control any funding. Look at the recent aid bill. They also destroyed their moral leverage by their encampments, vandalism, and elements of anti-semitism. They are the absolute worst advocates for their cause imaginable. The only people who support them are their faculty who are terrified of not being cool with the kids.

@trollslayer The definition seems a little this, a little that, who decides?