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David ben gurions own words

Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?
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SW-User
If you support Palestine as a nation-state, you aren't really much of a Marxist.

The same applies to other self-proclaimed Marxists.

What are you exactly?
Guitarman123 · 31-35, M
@SW-User what? Im somebody who detests apartheid regimes.
SW-User
@Guitarman123 Do you support Palestine as a nation-state?

Israel isn't an apartheid. They only meet one of the criteria for apartheid, and this is tenuous due to the aspect of intercommunal conflict, war, and threats around security. There is a significant lack of regard for Palestinians in the West Bank where settlements and their expansion are concerned, but this is enabled by the lack of Palestinian unity and effective leadership. Israel has not been adverse to a unified Palestine.

Hamas has the ability, but not the will, to make Gaza a liveable place. Gaza has to be contained by Israel and Egypt because Hamas makes it a security threat.

However, Hamas would be able to show it is not a security threat by accepting Israel and resolving to help their people by being a good leadership. Gaza has potential, but they have done nothing with it.

Nationalism on both sides significantly contributes to this conflict. But, if every other people get to have a state, why can't Israel?

After the Ottoman Empire dissolved, Arab nationalism more fervently emerged. They didn't want a Jewish state in the Middle East. The Palestinians were used to demonstrate this. Palestinians were made to believe that Palestine always had national sovereignty, when in fact it never had. The idea of a sovereign Palestinian state is far newer than the idea of a sovereign Jewish state.

Arab people lived in the land of Palestine, as did some Jews. Palestine, even after being renamed that by the Romans, had always been Israel to Jewish people.

Either unity and assimilation should have been encouraged, or a more committed and meaningful approach to the existence of two states living in harmony.

In either scenario, other Arab states should have kept out of it. They encouraged militancy based on the notion of Palestinian statehood, which was to be in favor of Jewish statehood. Both parties are highly nationalistic, but only one has historical persecution to account for this. The other is nationalistic because it has been told to be.

You, as a self-professed Marxist, should dislike all forms of nationalism. Especially the extreme kind.
Guitarman123 · 31-35, M
@SW-User i despise nationalism as it creates conditions such as apartheid situation with israel and Palestine. Its arguably worse than apartheid south africa. The people of Palestine were long settled on the lands by the time they were told to share it with the state of israel. I dont support hamas killing innocent people, just like i don't support israel killing innocent Palestinians and forcibly evacuating them from their homes. The people of Palestine simply want to live in a liberated society and not be treated so horrendously.
Guitarman123 · 31-35, M
@SW-User when you destroy villages, kill many innocent people and forcibly evacuate people because "god promised you that land" you shouldn't play the victim when they bite back. Israel created the conditions of which this conflict has been built on.
SW-User
@Guitarman123 Do you support beheading babies?
Guitarman123 · 31-35, M
@SW-User nobody is beheading babies. Thats right wing fearmongering that is spreading rapidly through mainstream media
SW-User
@Guitarman123 bullshit
Guitarman123 · 31-35, M
@SW-User castro was accused of a similar thing when he overthrew batista
Guitarman123 · 31-35, M
@SW-User i support Palestine as an independent people
tigard · 41-45, C
@Guitarman123 So you're opposed to the existence of the nation of Israel, right?
Guitarman123 · 31-35, M
@tigard im opposed to zionism and it oppressing people