"China raises its retaliatory tariff on the US to 84% as it vows to 'fight to the end'"
We are done
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thrash · 31-35, M
at least they're duking it out economically, innit. trade wars are survivable. . .
"who consumes more"
"who suffers long term?"
"who consumes more"
In 2023, China's household final consumption expenditure was approximately $6.96 trillion USD. In contrast, the United States had a household final consumption expenditure of about $17.99 trillion USD in the same year.
Trading Economics
When comparing these figures, the U.S. household consumption is significantly higher than China's. This disparity is notable given the population differences:
China's population (2023): Approximately 1.439 billion
U.S. population (2023): Approximately 331 million
This means that the U.S. population is roughly 4.35 times smaller than China's. Despite this, the total household consumption in the U.S. is more than double that of China. This indicates a substantially higher per capita consumption in the United States compared to China.
Several factors contribute to this difference:
Economic Structure: The U.S. economy is predominantly driven by consumer spending, which accounts for nearly 70% of its GDP. In contrast, China's consumption represents a smaller share of its GDP, with estimates around 39.13% in 2023.
China Leadership
TheGlobalEconomy.com
Income Levels: Higher average incomes in the U.S. enable greater consumer spending.
Savings Rates: Chinese households tend to have higher savings rates, leading to less disposable income allocated for consumption.
Rhodium Group
These factors highlight the differing economic landscapes and consumer behaviors between the two countries.
Trading Economics
When comparing these figures, the U.S. household consumption is significantly higher than China's. This disparity is notable given the population differences:
China's population (2023): Approximately 1.439 billion
U.S. population (2023): Approximately 331 million
This means that the U.S. population is roughly 4.35 times smaller than China's. Despite this, the total household consumption in the U.S. is more than double that of China. This indicates a substantially higher per capita consumption in the United States compared to China.
Several factors contribute to this difference:
Economic Structure: The U.S. economy is predominantly driven by consumer spending, which accounts for nearly 70% of its GDP. In contrast, China's consumption represents a smaller share of its GDP, with estimates around 39.13% in 2023.
China Leadership
TheGlobalEconomy.com
Income Levels: Higher average incomes in the U.S. enable greater consumer spending.
Savings Rates: Chinese households tend to have higher savings rates, leading to less disposable income allocated for consumption.
Rhodium Group
These factors highlight the differing economic landscapes and consumer behaviors between the two countries.
"who suffers long term?"
great question—here’s the breakdown:
🔥 short-term pain:
both countries suffer in different ways:
🇺🇸 the u.s.:
consumers face higher prices for goods due to tariffs
exporters (especially farmers & tech) lose access to the huge chinese market
supply chains get disrupted
🇨🇳 china:
exports drop, especially to its largest customer—america
foreign investment may slow as companies hedge risk
economic growth takes a hit, especially if consumption stays weak
💣 but long-term?
🇨🇳 china is more vulnerable:
their economy relies heavily on exports and manufacturing
domestic consumption is still weak (as we saw, $7T vs america’s $18T)
population is aging fast and youth unemployment is high
if the west shifts supply chains away from china (like to india or vietnam), china loses leverage
authoritarian structure = less flexibility to adapt in a consumer-led economy
🇺🇸 america is more resilient:
still the #1 consumer market in the world
more self-sufficient: huge internal market, tech, energy, agriculture
innovation-driven economy vs china’s copy-manufacture-export model
able to absorb shocks better due to stronger institutions and financial systems
🧠 but there's nuance:
china’s leadership plays the long game. they may absorb pain for a decade or more, betting that the u.s. will blink first. and if they manage to stimulate domestic demand and build new alliances (like BRICS+ or belt and road), they could weather it.
🏁 bottom line?
if the trade war drags on for decades, china likely suffers more long-term—unless they successfully pivot to a consumption-driven economy, which they’re trying, but slowly.
meanwhile, america’s massive internal demand and economic diversity give it a sturdier foundation to ride it out.
you feel like that’s how it’ll play out? or do you see a different endgame?
🔥 short-term pain:
both countries suffer in different ways:
🇺🇸 the u.s.:
consumers face higher prices for goods due to tariffs
exporters (especially farmers & tech) lose access to the huge chinese market
supply chains get disrupted
🇨🇳 china:
exports drop, especially to its largest customer—america
foreign investment may slow as companies hedge risk
economic growth takes a hit, especially if consumption stays weak
💣 but long-term?
🇨🇳 china is more vulnerable:
their economy relies heavily on exports and manufacturing
domestic consumption is still weak (as we saw, $7T vs america’s $18T)
population is aging fast and youth unemployment is high
if the west shifts supply chains away from china (like to india or vietnam), china loses leverage
authoritarian structure = less flexibility to adapt in a consumer-led economy
🇺🇸 america is more resilient:
still the #1 consumer market in the world
more self-sufficient: huge internal market, tech, energy, agriculture
innovation-driven economy vs china’s copy-manufacture-export model
able to absorb shocks better due to stronger institutions and financial systems
🧠 but there's nuance:
china’s leadership plays the long game. they may absorb pain for a decade or more, betting that the u.s. will blink first. and if they manage to stimulate domestic demand and build new alliances (like BRICS+ or belt and road), they could weather it.
🏁 bottom line?
if the trade war drags on for decades, china likely suffers more long-term—unless they successfully pivot to a consumption-driven economy, which they’re trying, but slowly.
meanwhile, america’s massive internal demand and economic diversity give it a sturdier foundation to ride it out.
you feel like that’s how it’ll play out? or do you see a different endgame?
@thrash Economic Structure: The U.S. economy is predominantly driven by consumer spending, which accounts for nearly 70% of its GDP. In contrast, China's consumption represents a smaller share of its GDP, with estimates around 39.13% in 2023. Which means that we will be destroyed sooner than i predict because the boobs in this country are cancelling the stores and soon the sites where we shop. Done
america’s massive internal demand and economic diversity give it a sturdier foundation to ride it out. There is less demand every day. the youth is deciding this as if they are gonna make America great again by doing this. We...are...screwed
america’s massive internal demand and economic diversity give it a sturdier foundation to ride it out. There is less demand every day. the youth is deciding this as if they are gonna make America great again by doing this. We...are...screwed
thrash · 31-35, M
@LILY61 "would it be easier for china to switch to new economic model of consumption as oppoesed to manufacturing or easier for u.s to switch to new model of manufacturing to cater to its own consumption appetite"
for china to win they'll have to do something they've never done before. u.s just needs to go back to its roots. which will be good in the long run cause if ww3 breaks out u.s will be self-sufficient
...
China Shifting to Consumption: While China's government has more control and can directly implement changes, shifting their economy from manufacturing to consumption will be a long-term and gradual process. It will require a change in consumer behavior, greater income equality, and the growth of service sectors. In the short term, manufacturing will likely remain dominant in their economy, and transitioning will be a delicate balancing act.
U.S. Shifting to Manufacturing: Rebuilding domestic manufacturing in the U.S. is no easy feat, but it is technologically feasible, especially with automation and innovation. However, it would involve a significant reorganization of supply chains, and it’s costly and time-consuming. The higher labor costs and lack of industrial infrastructure pose challenges, but it’s not impossible, especially if the U.S. focuses on high-tech, automation-driven industries.
Conclusion:
Both transitions are challenging in their own right, but China's shift to a consumption-driven economy might take longer to manifest due to cultural, demographic, and infrastructure challenges. Meanwhile, the U.S. transitioning back to manufacturing could happen more quickly, particularly if driven by automation and innovation, but the high labor costs and need to rebuild infrastructure present significant hurdles.
China Shifting to Consumption: While China's government has more control and can directly implement changes, shifting their economy from manufacturing to consumption will be a long-term and gradual process. It will require a change in consumer behavior, greater income equality, and the growth of service sectors. In the short term, manufacturing will likely remain dominant in their economy, and transitioning will be a delicate balancing act.
U.S. Shifting to Manufacturing: Rebuilding domestic manufacturing in the U.S. is no easy feat, but it is technologically feasible, especially with automation and innovation. However, it would involve a significant reorganization of supply chains, and it’s costly and time-consuming. The higher labor costs and lack of industrial infrastructure pose challenges, but it’s not impossible, especially if the U.S. focuses on high-tech, automation-driven industries.
Conclusion:
Both transitions are challenging in their own right, but China's shift to a consumption-driven economy might take longer to manifest due to cultural, demographic, and infrastructure challenges. Meanwhile, the U.S. transitioning back to manufacturing could happen more quickly, particularly if driven by automation and innovation, but the high labor costs and need to rebuild infrastructure present significant hurdles.
for china to win they'll have to do something they've never done before. u.s just needs to go back to its roots. which will be good in the long run cause if ww3 breaks out u.s will be self-sufficient
@thrash i have been saying this for the past million years that America needed to go back to manufacturing for many reasons. We needed to have faith and pride in our country again ...but you don't break all the eggs and then days later try to bake a cake with them.
We needed to start manufacturing and then turn down imports from other countries etc...Then raise tariffs to a small degree.
We also needed to fix our country's military before making this boneheaded move that Trump has made. We need to actually become the "World Police". Then we would be threatening enough so that we wouldn't have to worry about retaliation so much.
We needed to start manufacturing and then turn down imports from other countries etc...Then raise tariffs to a small degree.
We also needed to fix our country's military before making this boneheaded move that Trump has made. We need to actually become the "World Police". Then we would be threatening enough so that we wouldn't have to worry about retaliation so much.
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