The God of nature and the God of supernature

By the God of nature, I refer to the God that man knows from his reason and intelligence.

By the God of supernature, I refer to the God that Christians know from the Bible (or the Koran for Muslims).

Here is my division of the three ways man comes to know God exists:
1. By reasoning
2. By reading the Bible (or the Koran for Muslims)
3. By meditation

From my part, I know God exists by the num 1 modus i.e. reasoning.

What about everyone else here, in particular I like to ask atheists whether they know about God (and deny He exists) by which way: num 1 or num 2 or num 3 ?

This page is a permanent link to the reply below and its nested replies. See all post replies »

DocSavage · M

How I see it
Creation does not need a creator . It needs a catalyst. Something to set it in motion. What follows is the natural formation of the elements involved. No designer, permanent or otherwise needed. And no evidence of an agenda .
We got it, it’s ours while we’re here. Do what you can , while you can.

yrger · 80-89, M

@DocSavage

You say "It needs a catalyst."

And I ask you who or what ultimately created the catalyst, and don't say you don't know, unless you belong to the likes of cattle and donkeys and frogs.

Mathers · 61-69

Like saying a computer programme does not need a programmer. Pretty dumb@DocSavage

DocSavage · M

@Mathers
Again you’re humanizing things. Computer programs are created for a purpose, they serve an agenda. We created them for our needs and purposes.
What do you believe god’s reason is for creation ? What can we do for god, that he can’t will into existence at the onset ? 13+ billion years is a very long time. Evolution is a very slow process. Abiogenesis took who knows how long to get the recipe right. And that’s just for life on Earth. What about all those other planets, orbiting all those stars, in all those galaxies ?
You only see a tiny fraction of the paint, where is the picture ?

DocSavage · M

@yrger/stoolsample

Been there, Done That.

Wake me when you get back to microwave background radiation. This is getting boring.

yrger · 80-89, M

@DocSavage

You DocSavage are talking about the God of supernature, because you are a biblical atheist, you were I am certain previously a fundamentalist Bible Christian.

I am dealing with the God of nature.

Man can and does come to know Him by reason and intelligence and also by science, specifically from investigating the Big Bang, which is the event of the cosmic microwave background radiatiion.

Scientists honestly and couragiously and productively studying the cosmic microwave background radiation, they have come to the conclusion that the creator is behind this event.

Of course atheists notwithstanding being scientists, do not care to ask themselves the question, what caused the cosmic microwave background radiation, because they have already adopted the absurd attitude that in effect, the cosmic microwave background radiation came from nothingness.

You DocSavage are a savage without reason and intelligence and honesty and bravery, when you a savage already in your hard-wired brain instinctively feel that the creator is just one honest and sincere and rational and intelligent fruitful act from your heart and mind.

DocSavage · M

@yrger/stoolsample
You are talking shit. Your ultimate god, has some influence on our reality or he doesn’t exist. You’re the one who says he’s self existing, you’re the one that says he’s permanent, you’re the one who says he’s the operator of everything that isn’t god. Non of those conform to the nature of this reality. He lives outside of time and space, he invented love. How exactly did he accomplish all this ? Where do you see all this happening by design?
If your god has no powers, he can’t influence anything. It’s like he was never there to begin with. That’s because he wasn’t.

yrger · 80-89, M

@DocSavage

Hi Doc, when you were a child did you ask your parents how you got to be their baby.

Next, are you perhaps also a parent, or at least you know how babies come about.

Now, think intelligently before answering me.

Ultimately did you put yourself into existence?

DocSavage · M

@yrger/stoolsample

There you go, using that word ultimately again. As if it had any value to my current circumstances.
You could owe your ultimate existence to a defective condom. Go back 13+ billion years ago, a molecule that made a copy of itself. Ultimately it doesn’t matter, you don’t owe anything to anyone. Why worry ? Is god going to take it all back ?

yrger · 80-89, M

@DocSavage

You have not answered this question, "Ultimately did you put yourself into existence?"

And it's because you have very low IQ.

Hi Doc, when you were a child did you ask your parents how you got to be their baby.

Next, are you perhaps also a parent, or at least you know how babies come about.

Now, think intelligently before answering me.

Ultimately did you put yourself into existence?

yrger · 80-89, M

@DocSavage

You are into the most ridiculous way of thinking, indicatve that you need not deserve a brain.

You say, "a molecule that made a copy of itself."

Tell me, is that molecule permanent self-existent? In which case that molecule is God.

If not God, then it needs God's causation to come into existence.

DocSavage · M

@yrger/stoolsample
Says who ?
Struck a nerve with “Defective Condom” didn’t I

DocSavage · M

@yrger/stoolsample
Yeah, i did, just took me longer . Not as easy as it looks you know.