The God of nature and the God of supernature

By the God of nature, I refer to the God that man knows from his reason and intelligence.

By the God of supernature, I refer to the God that Christians know from the Bible (or the Koran for Muslims).

Here is my division of the three ways man comes to know God exists:
1. By reasoning
2. By reading the Bible (or the Koran for Muslims)
3. By meditation

From my part, I know God exists by the num 1 modus i.e. reasoning.

What about everyone else here, in particular I like to ask atheists whether they know about God (and deny He exists) by which way: num 1 or num 2 or num 3 ?

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yrger · 80-89, M

Here is how I come to know the God of nature:

1. In nature the sun rises in the morning and goes down the horizon in the evening, the moon rises in the evening and goes down the horizon at dawn.
2. These natural phenomena occur in regular order.
3. Therefore ultimately there is the God of nature Who created all things in nature including humans like you and me.

DocSavage · M

[@yrger/stoolsample

1. In nature the sun rises in the morning and goes down the horizon in the evening, the moon rises in the evening and goes down the horizon at dawn.

Wrong again. The sunrise is an illusion created by the Earth’s rotation. The Sun is stationery, remember ? Planets orbit around it and so on.
If you don’t know the basics, what makes you think you’re capable of figuring out the origin of the universe ?
Just like everyone else, you give your god whatever power and abilities needed to do the job to your specific beliefs. Omnipotent, all seeing, all knowing. All done for some unknowable purpose beyond our understanding. Of course, you with your superior logic and reason glimpsed the truth. Heard it thousands of times before. Still sounds arrogant and ignorant. My definition of god is simple. God is the catalyst that set things in motion. Neither alive , self aware, or permanent. And certainly not in control. Just because I don’t believe in your god, doesn’t mean I don’t understand it.

yrger · 80-89, M

@DocSavage

I like you to explain how and why ultlimately everything in nature i.e. in the material/physical universe is running in an orderly fashion.

And don't claim that you don't know, unless you have no mind and intelligence, in which case you are not human - but you belong to the likes of cattle and donkeys and frogs.

DocSavage · M

@yrger/stoolsample
Given time, science might explain. Unlike you, I don’t presume to have irrefutable evidence one way or the other. You, yourself refuse to go into any detail as to your logic and reason reveals. When pressed, you slid back to an all loving, omnipotent spirt, outside time and space. Traditional.
My definition is still every bit as valid, and is supported by the facts. Your’s isn’t.

DocSavage · M

@yrger[c=009E4F/stoolsample[/c]

I don’t see why you keep repeating the same question. I gave you the answer a dozen times already. Ultimately the universe is self existing energy and matter.
You , yourself I keep saying this is possible. It is permanent, but changes its state , say from singularity to expanding . Space, time, gravity exist within, it follows the laws of physics and contains various life forms, with the exception which could be called god by our definitions.
It’s actually not much different from what you claim. What is missing is the same thing you’re missing , intelligence.
There is no need for a god, just a catalyst to get things moving. A little bang to set off the big one.