I find it so unusual that so many people actually worship the same god, but fight so much over the interpretations of the right way to worship said god. And it's not even just Christian vs Muslim, but through history has also been Christian vs Christian and Muslim vs Muslim sometimes. Protestants specifically seem very keen on pointing out how everyone else worships the wrong way.
@Moon3624 In my Christian upbringing, Jesus wasn't God. Only the father was, but Jesus was basically your advocate in front of the Father who is the one true God. I'm no longer Christian myself. But I also know that where Jesus is accepted within Islam, he is considered a prophet, not the actual child of God.
1) I have a three questions which is the oldest Christianity or Islam.
2) Isn't Christianity then Islam both from the entity Hebrew/ Israelite / Jews worshiped
3) Did not Muhammad study Judaism, informed his own theologies?
Christians are not praying to the cross or statues, they are praying to God that the Cross or statues represent which in Christianity as well as Judaism is Elohim / Yahweh and they pray in the name of Jesus....... The idols or false gods that the Hebrew / Israelites prayed to was not Yahweh or Elohim, that is why God don't do it....... Many Christian churches still bow, and / or get on their knees, which was the practice most Christian churches did up until around the 1970s, they may stand and bow their heads or they may stand and look up to the heavens in these present days.
The Muslims do not believe in the Divinity of Jesus which is their right, for Christians Jesus fulfilled the laws / ordinances such as facing the east, bowing seven times, sack cloth and ashes, and such.
Christians don't believe in Islam either, or most of the things written in the Quran, except when it agrees with the Old Testament of the Torah / Hebrew Bible. And very few Christians try to make it a point to refute Islam and definitely not Judaism, but Muslims seem to want to openly outwardly refute Christianity and their beliefs, I wonder why .
I’m a Muslim, and I was chatting with a Protestant Christian. I can’t say I “debunked Christianity” overall, but I’m confident I at least refuted the specific point he brought up:
“Islam claims to be monotheistic, yet you worship the Kaaba 🕋 in Mecca, which is rooted in Arab paganism.”
I told him:
I’ll use the Bible’s own logic to show that Muslims are monotheistic.
Many Protestants in the USA, when they want to worship God in an “official” way, go to a church, sit on pews, and pray in front of a cross or a statue of Jesus.
Every protestant church i have ever been in has NEVER had a statue of Jesus in it... That is what another religion, The catholic religion has in their churches... If there are churches with statues of Jesus in them then they are in rebellion against the Word of God and thus are NOT Christian churches..
@Moon3624 Yes.They have crosses to remind them of what Jesus went through to atone for their sins..
Non of them do acts of worship to the crosses like Muslims do to the black stone in mecca when they kiss it in the hope that the black stone will intercede for them on the day of judgement.. You cannot be more pagan then venerating a black stone, kissing it and seeking it's intervention..
“Yes.They have crosses to remind them of what Jesus went through to atone for their sins..”
You mean to remind you of the incident when God(also Jesus ) put the blame of the sin of Adam and Eve which you didn’t do on you (original sin) then in order to forgive a sin you didn’t do decided to get an innocent human (also happens to be God) to die ?
Anyways
You literally place a cross in the church then pray in front of it And sometimes wear it as a necklace and kiss it . this is paganism . In fact I dare you to give me the name of one biblical figure who sat on a pew praying in front of a cross or kneeled in prayer in front of it like you lot do in your churches .
No one in the Bible did it Not even mark or Matthew or John .so why do you do it ?
In fact building anything with your own hands (including crosses ) then praying in front of it Is prohibited in the Bible Exodus 20:4–5, Leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 4:15–19, Deuteronomy 5:8–9 Those verses don’t make exceptions So you folk decided to worship God not only in a way not mentioned in the bible but in a way your God forbade lol how ironic
Moving on ….
“ do to the black stone in mecca when they kiss it in the hope that the black stone will intercede for them on the day of judgement.. You cannot be more pagan then venerating a black stone, kissing it and seeking it's intervention..”
There’s not a single Quranic verse or Hadith where God tells us to kiss the black stone . We do not venerate a black stone nor worship it .. some people choose to kiss it cuz prophet Mohammed did it .
Companion of the prophet Mohammed and second caliph in Islam ʿUmar ibn al-Khaṭṭāb kissed the Black Stone and said :
“I know that you are only a stone; you can neither benefit nor harm. If I had not seen the Prophet kiss you, I would not kiss you.” Sahih al-Bukhari 1597
The hadith do not say Muslims should ask the Black Stone for intercession or that it has power.
Jāmiʿ at-Tirmidhī 961: The Prophet ﷺ said Allah will raise the Black Stone on the Day of Resurrection with two eyes and a tongue, and it will testify for whoever touched it in truth
Meaning God will enable an object to testify against humans Where does it say that kissing it is a religious obligation or that we should venetrate it ?
Ironically this is also a biblical concept The ability of something to intercede because God alow it is a very biblical concept
In Job 42:8 God commands Job’s friends to seek intercession from Job. Guess this is paganism according to you because job was being worshipped
You mean to remind you of the incident when God(also Jesus ) put the blame of the sin of Adam and Eve which you didn’t do on you (original sin) then in order to forgive a sin you didn’t do decided to get an innocent human (also happens to be God) to die ?
No.. Adam and Eve's sin is upon them not upon me.. We humans inherit the sin nature that Adam and Eve came to have because they came to have the knowledge of good and evil.. Your understanding of Christianity is Severely lacking..
And the LORD Jesus who is indeed God.. Paid the penalty of sin which is death.. for all who sin will die.. The LORD can forgive but the penalty for sin Must be paid for Pure Justice to be satisfied.. The execution of Jesus satisfied the Justice of God.. So that all who trust in the Atonement of Jesus have the penalty of their sins paid for in full by the LORD Jesus..
Anyways
You literally place a cross in the church then pray in front of it And sometimes wear it as a necklace and kiss it .
They DO NOT pray to a Cross.. Thats like saying when muslims pray in a mosque they are praying to the Mosque.. Muslims would see that as a ridiculous statement just as Christians see your saying that Christians pray to a cross simply because there are crosses in churches.. It clearly shows your ignorance to Christians to say Christians are praying to a cross.. Your credibility goes to ZERO..
There’s not a single Quranic verse or Hadith where God tells us to kiss the black stone . We do not venerate a black stone nor worship it .. some people choose to kiss it cuz prophet Mohammed did it .
Yes and muslims are told that muhammad is the best example of the way to live for all muslims.. Therefore muhammd engaged in pagan kissing of the black stone and therefore all muslims according to islam must do muhammad did and kills the black stone this engaging in pure paganism..
“I know that you are only a stone; you can neither benefit nor harm. If I had not seen the Prophet kiss you, I would not kiss you.” Sahih al-Bukhari 1597
EXACTLY.. Here Bukhari is TALKING to the Black Stone.... The muslim Bukhari is talking to a STONE thus he is acknowledging that the Stome has a SPIRIT... He would not even talk to the Stone if He believed it was just an inanimate object.. A souless stone.. Bukhari believe the black stone was an intelligent living spirit who was able to listen to Bukhari talking to it... How much clearer can this abomination be??? Thanks for quoting a hadith that proves my Point..
Jāmiʿ at-Tirmidhī 961: The Prophet ﷺ said Allah will raise the Black Stone on the Day of Resurrection with two eyes and a tongue, and it will testify for whoever touched it in truth
AGAIN.. muhammad teaching that the stone knows who touched it / kissed it and will testify to God who kissed it during it's time in Mecca.. Thus muhammad is stating the the Stone is an intelligent spirit who acts as an agent of God.. providing witness to the religiosity of individual muslims down through the ages.. The Stone is a Spirit according to both mohammad and Bukhari.. But in truth it is only a Stone and to teach it as a Spirit agent of God is Blasphemy..
In Job 42:8 God commands Job’s friends to seek intercession from Job. Guess this is paganism according to you because job was being worshipped
Job;s Friends are NOT IDOLS... They are living Human beings and humans praying for others is a well established teaching of God in the Torah and the Gospels.. Seeking the intercession of Idols / black stone is Blasphemy and pure paganism..
You muslims are totally deceived and seem to be unable to see the blasphemy you clearly take part in.. Probably out of loyalty to your parents or to you imams or even loyalty to your arab culture..
But those who place the words of their parents or religious authorities or their culture above the Word of God shall not have the eternal blessings of the LORD in His perfect eternal existence..
@jshm2 I don’t believe in the Bible so I don’t care if it says Jesus is God But without Paul you have to twist the bible so much to make Jesus God. For example Christians love to quote
John 10:30 (KJV) “I and my Father are one.”
To prove that Jesus is God However if you use the original Greek because the New Testament was written in Greek The word for one used here is “ hen” Hen in Greek can mean “ one reality” pr “one unity .” Not necessarily as in one literal individual So most likely this verse meant one in purpose .
It’s easy to prove this when you read further in John And reach John 17:22 Here Jesus addresses his deciples and says :
“And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:” So he is referring back to John 10:30
So he is basically saying here may the deciples be one in purpose / unity / love Just like I and you God are one in unity He does not mean the deciples are the ssme one person in literal sense
Similar message in John 17:21 (KJV) “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
Both these verses also “hen “ for one Just like John 10:30
However in other verses that declar “ there is no God but one “ They always used the Greek word “heis” Which is one in number.
So If God or more accurately the writer wanted to clearly present Jesus and the father as one God he would have used heis instead of hen in John 10:30 Unless God wanted to confuse his followers
@SomeMichGuy the Christian dude gave a specific statement against Islam and I refuted him using his own Bible which I don’t believe in 🥱 stay on topic and attempt to refute my respond to the guy if you can instead of being disrespectful due to inferiority complex. it is funny how some Christians can get easily offended on similar worlds even when a post is respectful .
