Christians: In your honest, non-antagonistic opinion, why do you think that atheists are atheist?
I encourage Christians to answer honestly and Atheists if they wish to respond with correction or affirmation to do so without either party taking things personally or becoming combative.
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because there is no irrefutable evidence of god.....no one has ever seen god or provided evidence of an afterlife...because there are so many connections to christian practices and prior practices...
Yes, being unconvinced by the claims that a god exists is a big one. That's why i'm an atheist. I can't believe in something that i am not convinced exists.
@Pikachu Makes sense to me. I was a Christian for many years....I still think there's value in behaving like one...and I still think there is something more than random chance happening in the universe. It just seems very convenient for people to create a god to help explain what is happening. And at some point, I question why this god would never have revealed themselves or this incredible love....
I think a lot of atheists, particularly in America come out of Christian households. It seems to happen when they stop just nodding along with what the preacher is saying and start asking questions. But yeah, there's plenty of good to come out of behaving like a Christian.
@Pikachu plenty of bad has come from christians as well. I think living like Christ as portrayed in the Bible is cool, but ;I think christianity has done maybe 70% good and 30% horrible....not a good ratio for a loving religion.
Yes but with atheism there is absolutely no morality and no nothing. With atheism you don’t know how to behave even and one morality is as good as another@originnone
@Mathers I struggle with that one too tbh....I've read a lot about how that assertion would be answered, and the best I've seen is that when you have no moral basis, you make your own moral principles....I still haven't figured that one out tbh....that's where I get stuck....
[quote]Yes but with atheism there is absolutely no morality and no nothing. With atheism you don’t know how to behave even and one morality is as good as another[/quote]
I'll have to correct you there. Certainly atheists know how to behave because we don't grow up in a vacuum. One doesn't require a divinely mandated code of ethics in order to have one. Humanism is a very valuable point of reference for morality and one which in most ways is completely compatible with Christian morality. Promoting human flourishing and preventing human suffering. That's where humanism starts. Do you have any issue with that as a way for an atheist to behave?
@Pikachu but...why? I get stuck on there being anything special about humans. We not even a pimple on the face of life on earth let alone in the universe. Secular humanism has many more positives than negatives....but why protect a species that has been and continues to be horrible to itself and other species.....
Why? Because we're humans and we value humans over other animals. If we didn't we probably wouldn't be here anymore lol. Not saying that's right or wrong but that is the priority and really has to be without everything grinding to a halt.
No I’ll have to correct you there. You are of course wrong . Humanism grow out of Christianity with Christian values. The first humanists were Christians like Erasmus who had rejected the dogma of the church for human thought but still remain believers. You see humanism came from Christianity and the only goid remaining values of humanism are derived from its Christian roots. The historian Tom Holland made this point in a debate with the atheist A J Grier. He foattened Grier. Of course it’s fine for atheists to have goid values but there is no logic to them. @Pikachu
That's fine. The crucial and important difference is that at its foundation humanism prioritizes what is good for humans while at its core, Christian morality prioritizes what god wants, or rather what people [i]think[/i] god wants. And that's really where the harm comes in.
[quote]but there is no logic to them[/quote]
How so? What's illogical about working towards the increase of human flourishing and the decrease of human suffering?
Yes but humanism is on the slippery slope away from Christian values. You will find it embracing more and more anti-Christian values till we become like the Roman Empire@Pikachu
Well 1) that's only a problem if one begins with the assumption that Christian values are superior and 2) you've just deployed a slippery slope logical fallacy and literally used "slippery slope" in it. Asserting that not using Christian values will lead to problems is insufficient reason to accept that assertion as true.
@Mathers The best explanation for secular humanism came from my favorite writer, Kurt Vonnegut. He said humanism tries to do good for humanity regardless of religion. At least on the surface, that seems like a decent thing....at least that would preclude a lot of horrible things religious people AND atheists have done and still do....
Yes but you see the results of it. There is no moral code because no logical reason for one. Every man does what is right in his own eyes and follows his genes@originnone
[quote] There is no moral code because no logical reason for one. Every man does what is right in his own eyes and follows his genes[/quote]
I think you're mistaking having no divine arbiter of morality with having no arbitration on morality at all. This is incorrect. With respect to the objective of increased human flourishing and decreased human suffering every man cannot just do what is right in his own eyes because with that priority established, there are right and wrong choices to that end. It is logical for people within a society to adhere to those ethical considerations for the same reason it is logical to do so using a Christian foundation: it's better for the community when we treat each other well and cooperate.
I think it’s quite laughable what you’re saying. Of course there is a certain human conscience because God has put it there but that conscience can soon get erased. Have you read the history of ancient Rome? Do you really know what that society was like? Have you read Tom Holland? The only thing we’ve got going for us is that we’ve got modern science which can relieve human suffering. Do you honestly think what is going on in the world today is any better than what has gone on before? The only reason America is better than any other country it’s because you’ve got vestiges of Christianity there. I know I’ve been to other countries which haven’t@Pikachu
@Mathers That's where the idea of positive nihilism comes in. Don't attach me to this because I'm not really bought in. But the idea is there is no god and no intrinsict meaning to or point to life. So....you are able to create your own principles. The obvious next step is that "WE" can agree to a set of principles. That appears to be where society is headed, with a strong influence of Judao Christian ethics. I'm really not bought in at this point.
