How would a blind and deaf person achieve salvation?

@Adstar So reading scriptures in Braille is mandatory?

@Amish What is mandatory if you want to have eternal life with God is to accept the teachings of The LORD Jesus and trust in the Atonement Jesus secured for ones sins..

@Adstar Can we shift the conversation to much more logical and practical aspects please ?
People are born in different and diverse cultural and religious backgrounds. Some of the religions mandate believing in their version of God to attain salvation. Problem with that rule is that the underprivileged people under question may have never been exposed to the rules of the religions( example: Abrahamic religions) with stringent constraints. How does then one break all these barriers, read the one and only one scripture and attain salvation? I hope my question is quite clear!

@Amish Ok let me ask you a question.. Maybe if you answer it correctly you may have the answer to your question..

If a person never hears the Message of the LORD Jesus in their lives and therefore has never been offered the gift of His Atonement for their sins.. Has that person rejected the Way of salvation God has made for all human beings to be saved?

@Adstar Ok. Since you are specifically referring to Bible my logical answer would be that he has neither accepted nor rejected, but you have to clarify whether in biblical terms the same rule applies.

@Amish A person who has never heard the message and offer of the gift of salvation has never rejected the gift of Gods atonement for their transgressions... Therefore the conclusion you should be coming to is that the eternal destiny of everyone who has never been offered the gift of Gods salvation is still undecided...

So the often heard objection expressed by anti-Christians that God is unjust because people who have never read or heard the message of God are condemned to hell through no fault of there own is baseless...

@Adstar
I wonder if the above statement would contradict the message of Bible. Because as per almost all Christians and Bible according to them, every one has been offered with the gift of salvation. It doesn't talk about any exceptions.

Now taking your argument for granted,
there are 3 possibilities

1) people who hear but still couldn't logically comprehend that message and requirements for salvation - They will go to hell.
2) Those who have heard or read and readily accept the requirements for salvation, will go to Heaven.
3) For those who had never heard or read about salvation or the one and only one true God - their future is undecided.

Probably the Revelations chapter has to be updated.

Above 3 points will decide, whether you will go to heaven?
Accordingly you have to find answer from below choices.

A) Yes
B) No
C) Not Sure

@Amish
Well the revelation of the gift of God never happened untill Jesus secured the gift so everyone who lived before the times of Jesus could never have recieved the offer.. Though the Bible does reveal that some people in the Old testament where looking forward to the day that God would provide the solution..


If people have been offered the true Gospel way of salvation and reject it and persist in that rejection till the day they die then i believe they are headed to eternity in the Lake of fire..


Yes this is what i believe..

Untill such time as they are offered the Way of salvation..


What chapter in Revelations has to be updated? Why does it need to be updated?

@Adstar It's not about rejection, it's about belief. It is not that people rejected the theory of salvation according to some people's belief because they are arogant or bad, it is just that they didn't think they have a convincing enough reason to believe the gospel way of salvation. For that if any God decides that those who don't believe has to end in the lake of fire for eternity,then that God is without any doubt a real devil.

When would that time come? What if they die in between?

@Amish

Of course it is about rejection.. If someone is told they are a sinner in need of forgiveness they have two options agree they are a sinner needing forgiveness or get offended that they have been called a sinner and reject the message.. A lot of people end up rejecting the message because they have a favorite sin they love and hate that it is being called out as a sin..

For one to be forgiven one much acknowledge their wrongdoing and seek forgiveness.. That happens between humans and it is no different when it comes to God..


You may have been reading my replies but this question clearly shows that you have not been understanding what i have been saying:: Read the following scripture about what happened after Jesus was executed...

(1 Peter 3:18-20) "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: {19} By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; {20} Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

So let me see if after reading this scripture you can tell me what it is saying? What happened after Jesus died on the cross according to this scripture and what conclusion can be justifiably derived from it??

@Adstar I do not know why it is so difficult for you to differentiate between a rejection and an inability to believe. Inability to believe in this case is mostly rooted from being told to believe something they find illogical or which is hard to accept because of inconclusive evidences. There is clearly a difference between hiding your sin and not realising your sin. Just because someone else told you that you are a sinner for some sins that you are not aware of is not denying a sin that you have committed.

I am not sure what you are talking about. Either you forgot the context or got confused between people.

I do not know how this question is related to my question. The question was about the time [ For those who had never heard or read about salvation or the one and only one true God - their future is undecided...Untill such time as they are offered the Way of salvation.. ]. What will happen if they die before they are offered the supposed to be way of salvation?

@Amish So you cannot read the scriptures i posted and give an interpretation.... You ask me questions which i answer but you are not listening and when ask you one question you just decide not to not even try to answer it... Makes me wonder why some people go to all the effort ask questions that deep down they never want answered.. Like are you even serious in seeking answers?

Anyway i will finish off this exchange with the following i have no doubt that anyone reading alone who is actually seeking answers has already figured things out..


So you think the idea that sins need to be forgiven is illogical? You also believe that every Christian believes the teachings of Jesus because they where told by someone to believe His teachings.. Like when God said thou shalt not steal the only reason i believe it is because someone in authority in my life told me to believe that stealing is wrong... Man you must have an extremely low opinion of Christians.. Oh and i because a Christian in my early to Mid 20's because i read the Bible for myself.. NO ONE TOLD ME TO BELIEVE IT... This must be a mind blowing concept to you but people can actually read the teachings of of the LORD in the Bible and actually agree with them that they are good and truth..

The Word of God, it's truth, it's moral standards actually move people to believe in and trust in the Word of God..

Now let me post the scriptures i posted before..

(1 Peter 3:18-20) "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Now who was put to death in the flesh.. That was Jesus who's flesh body was executed on the cross..


quickened by the Spirit{19} By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

So the Spirit of Jesus ( not his flesh form ) upon his execution when to preach ( give the gospel message) to the spirits in prison: who are the spirits mentioned here and what is this prison.. The Prison is Hell and the spirits in hell are the spirits of men who had been placed into hell since ancient times.. Now Why did Jesus preach the gospel to people in hell???? To give them an opportunity to hear the gospel and the opportunity to believe in the Gospel that would save them from..... Hell.. The next part of scripture shows just how far back in history that some of the people ion hell had been there waiting for the LORD..

{20} Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

So these people where disobedient ( sinners ) from ancient times including the people who had died in the great flood in the days of Noah..

Ok so your question IE
was answered before in my earlier post when i stressed that people who REJECT the way of salvation will have eternity in the Lake of Fire.. I did not say those who fail to accept the way of salvation during their life time..

@Adstar The fact is that you have not answered any of the questions. The problem with people with one and only one true God theory is that they are habituated in not understand the meaning of the questions and simple paste the contents of fairy tale scriptures all over the place.
You are right abou this thing and the answer has been figured out.

The one and only one true God is a myth and a myth being spread

A person claiming to be God or asking his followers to spread this idea really believes that one day all people will loose logical reasoning skills.

A person who is blind and deaf will not go to hell or the lake of fire or all the phrases that the devil describes. So does any person who has no intention of harming others.


IT IS THE GOOD DEEDS THAT PEOPLE DO THAT REALLY MATTERS AND NOT THE BELIEF IN SOME HEROIC FIGURE IN ANY FAIRY TALE SCRIPTURES

Lastly,

The contents that you have shared from the so called scripture that you believe is nothing unique and is actually an assembled ideas from the scriptures of Pagan beliefs.

I am happy to close this exchange because you are simply running around the question rather than answering them. I do not blame you because probably the scriptures you refer or believe are too weak to answer the problems in real life.

From all you have discussed one can easily conclude that your God and scriptures have solutions only to IMAGINARY PROBLEMS AND NOT FOR ANY REAL LIFE SCENARIOS.

@Amish Ok your not a seeker.. You're an Anti-Christ out to attack the Word of God.. Gotcha...

Yes you are happy top close this because your feeling uncomfortable dealing with a confident Christian..

Your ranting antiGod statements are just like water running off a ducks back to me.. and ending your post with Caps is just a Cope...

@Adstar No worries. Keep trusting your judgement about others. Let me give you a good advice before we close this off. Follow it if you like. One thing I can assure you, I will never consider you a sinner even if you do not follow this advice.
IT IS THE GOOD DEEDS AND THE WILL TO BE KIND AND GOOD THAT REALLY MATTERS AND NOT THE BELIEF IN SOME X,Y,Z OR THEIR ACTS.

@Amish I am a sinner you are a sinner and the oly One who is not a sinner is the One who is Perfect and that is the LORD.. Doing 10 good deeds does not absolve you of the one bad deed you have done.. Having the will to be good does not make you good.. What matters is being forgiven for the times you have not been good..

@Adstar Good deeds are done in the right spirit. It is not done to absolve any bad deeds. That's a wrong concept.
What really matters is to be a better version of yourself with time. Focusing on doing good deeds will take you a long way in this direction.

@Amish
Indeed 100% Christian POV there..


Being a better version of yourself will never make you a perfect version of yourself.. God is perfect.. His pass mark is 100%.. 99% is a failure.. It does not matter if one mans personal score is 60% and the next man is 90% .. Both need their 40% failure and 10% failure Atoned for.. Both need to be forgiven and the LORD Jesus died to provide that Atonement and each men need His atonement.. God will never allow anyone who is imperfect / unforgiven into His perfect eternal existence..

So nothing changes in regards to a mans salvation.. Without the Atonement of the LORD no one shall enter the kingdom of God..

@Adstar That's not Christian POV. Probably you are confused. You have already mentioned the Christian POV That is not right.
From Humanity POV ,
Good deeds are done in the right spirit. It is not done to absolve any bad deeds. That's a wrong concept. What really matters is to be a better version of yourself with time. Focusing on doing good deeds will take you a long way in this direction.
Doing good deeds need not focus on statistics. Real message of God teaches you to

CONTINUE DOING GOOD DEEDS WITHOUT WORRYING ABOUT REWARDS.

Unfortunately whatever Christian POV you mentioned everything focus on reward. You don't worry about salvation. Be a better person and good things will automatically happen to you. The real God will always ensure justice.

@Amish
This is definitly the Christian POV.. No amount of good deeds absolve you from one bad deed.. Thats 100% Christian..


Where discussing God and His POV here.. So yeah of course it is not the human POV.. It's Gods POV..


And this again is the Chrtistian POV..


NOPE.. Because i am not granted the Eternity with God because of my good deeds.. The central message of Christianity is that it is because of the Good Deeds of the LORD Jesus has secured for us eternity with God.. The Message of Christianity is that NO man is worthy of the reward of eternal life..

You really need to learn basicv Christianity 101..


Indeed and it is justice to have mercy on the repentant..

@Adstar Doesn't matter. You are not doing good deeds to absolve your bad deeds. Doesn't matter if it is a Christian concept, it is an 100% wrong concept.

What really matters is to be a better version of yourself with time. Focusing on doing good deeds will take you a long way in this direction. Focus not on salvation, instead be a good person. Unfortunately from your replies it is very clear that Christianity leads to a path of destruction. So either the Bible teaches the wrong things or you spread wrong things about Christianity.

@Amish
Cool so we agree on this one point then.. 👍 Our discussion was not a 100% failure then.. Sweet..


I can do both.. YOU CANNOT... I can strive to be the best version of myself i can be AND have Salvation at the same time.. You can only try to do the first thing and have no salvation because you never believe in it..

The human definition of being a good person is not Gods definition.. Jesus made it clear to us that ONLY God is Good.. So Gods definition of Good is Way Way higher then what human beings expectation of the level needed to be obtained to be Good..


No it's not.. And you have never shown it to cause it.. You just make statements like the above and think those statements establish your anti-Christ Bias as truth... I't does not..


The Bible teaches the truth... But people hate the truth and have love for unrightiousness and therefore they declare the Bible to be faulty / evil / foolishness..

@Adstar That's all about your belief in a myth. I have no problems with that.
That's either Jesus's opinion or your opinion about Jesus. Again I don't have any problem with that. True God teaches us to be a better person and doesn't claim that everyone except Him is not good.
People never hate the truth. Infact the search for truth is the core of human existence. If you say everyone are not good or can never be good except for one person then that is nothing short of foolishness. Ofcourse you name it faulty/evil/....as you wish...

@Amish
See you hate the truth.. You declare it foolishness..

@Adstar Such perception is purely your lack of compression. I just would like to repeat what I said before.
People never hate the truth. Infact the search for truth is the core of human existence.