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REMsleep · 41-45, F
Your comment is not true. The Bible's entire theme is that all who are born are sinners. This is why context and reading the whole Bible is so important.
I will list only a few additional verses
1. [b]For all have sinned[/b] and fall short of the glory of God. ( Romans 3:23) " All" includes believers. That means everyone no exceptions.
2. But God shows his love for us in that [b]while we were still sinners, [/b]Christ died for us. ( Romans 5:8) Meaning that Christ died for us even while we were not yet born or not yet repenant.
3. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because [b]all sinned[/b]—( Romans 5:12)
There are so many more instances of all who live being born in sin that we are sinners and no amount of good works can save us. Even the most perfect righteous person is a sinner. This is the theme of the new Testament. Salvation through Christ's loving sacrifice.
I will list only a few additional verses
1. [b]For all have sinned[/b] and fall short of the glory of God. ( Romans 3:23) " All" includes believers. That means everyone no exceptions.
2. But God shows his love for us in that [b]while we were still sinners, [/b]Christ died for us. ( Romans 5:8) Meaning that Christ died for us even while we were not yet born or not yet repenant.
3. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because [b]all sinned[/b]—( Romans 5:12)
There are so many more instances of all who live being born in sin that we are sinners and no amount of good works can save us. Even the most perfect righteous person is a sinner. This is the theme of the new Testament. Salvation through Christ's loving sacrifice.
Diotrephes · 70-79, M
@REMsleep [quote]Your comment is not true. The Bible's entire theme is that all who are born are sinners. This is why context and reading the whole Bible is so important.[/quote]
There is no dialogue by the Jesus character where he says that he came to die for the Gentiles. His whole message was that he only came for the Jews. He didn't give a damn about anyone else. He called Gentiles swine and dogs. He was a narcisstic ethnocentric bigot.
Consider George Washington and Thomans Jefferson. They fought for freedom and liberty but they didn't fight to give Blacks freedom and liberty. They fought to be able to keep them in slavery while they and other Whites enjoyed freedom and liberty. So, they were all ethnocentric bigots.
There is no dialogue by the Jesus character where he says that he came to die for the Gentiles. His whole message was that he only came for the Jews. He didn't give a damn about anyone else. He called Gentiles swine and dogs. He was a narcisstic ethnocentric bigot.
Consider George Washington and Thomans Jefferson. They fought for freedom and liberty but they didn't fight to give Blacks freedom and liberty. They fought to be able to keep them in slavery while they and other Whites enjoyed freedom and liberty. So, they were all ethnocentric bigots.
REMsleep · 41-45, F
@Diotrephes Again easily shown as untrue directly from the words of Jesus and his apostles( student followers/disciples).
God's message was never for one group of people. The message had to come from someone here on earth and so the Jews were choosen as the vessel.
This is stated in the Bible even before the birth of Christ.
Jesus did not love Jews more or come only to save them. In fact he was frequently unhappy with the treaching of many of the Jewish elites because they focused so heavily on laws and traditions instead of the word of God which they had access to. He described them as washing only the outside of a cup but the inside is dirty.
Even people who lived before Jews exsisted could love and respect God.
[b] “I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd” (John 10:16). [/b]
God's message was never for one group of people. The message had to come from someone here on earth and so the Jews were choosen as the vessel.
This is stated in the Bible even before the birth of Christ.
Jesus did not love Jews more or come only to save them. In fact he was frequently unhappy with the treaching of many of the Jewish elites because they focused so heavily on laws and traditions instead of the word of God which they had access to. He described them as washing only the outside of a cup but the inside is dirty.
Even people who lived before Jews exsisted could love and respect God.
[b] “I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd” (John 10:16). [/b]
REMsleep · 41-45, F
@Lichocolati In a strict sense you are correct. I understand what you are saying but it is just a manner of how the saved person chooses to speak on their conversion.
It is said this way to display humility( not pride) that saved people acknowledge that God saved them and not anything that they did and it is only by his grace that we are no longer living in sin and also as acknowledgement that we will never achieve a perfect sinless life here on earth.
I think that Christians say this because non-church people often view Christians as being self righteous so when trying to get out the message they want to drive home that we were sinners too and that only God's grace separates us from where they are.
It's true what you say that if you are repentant and have accepted Christ that you are or at least should not be living a life of sin and that those who are saved are now righteous.
But there is sound biblical doctrine for also acknowledging that we were sinners who have been saved as Paul does.
I do also see a danger that I had never considered before in stating things this way which can make it seem like we are still sinners and have no place to judge which is not correct.
It is said this way to display humility( not pride) that saved people acknowledge that God saved them and not anything that they did and it is only by his grace that we are no longer living in sin and also as acknowledgement that we will never achieve a perfect sinless life here on earth.
I think that Christians say this because non-church people often view Christians as being self righteous so when trying to get out the message they want to drive home that we were sinners too and that only God's grace separates us from where they are.
It's true what you say that if you are repentant and have accepted Christ that you are or at least should not be living a life of sin and that those who are saved are now righteous.
But there is sound biblical doctrine for also acknowledging that we were sinners who have been saved as Paul does.
I do also see a danger that I had never considered before in stating things this way which can make it seem like we are still sinners and have no place to judge which is not correct.