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YAHWEH's Great Dilemma

In the beginning Yahweh created, Light and dark, matter and void, wet and dry, nonliving and life and it was good. Yahweh said “Let Us create man in Our Image” and so Yahweh created man; male and female created He them. Yahweh put man in a paradise and gave them stern instructions, of all the plants in the garden you may eat but for the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil you must not eat. Seduced by a serpent the woman ate of the tree and gave it to her husband telling him that it was good to eat also. On that fateful day at that fateful moment when both man and woman had eaten of the forbidden fruit their souls passed from life to death. Their immortal bodies became mortal and the land did not give up its abundance as it had before. Driven from the garden evil increased on the earth as even some of the angels became sinners by having sex with human women. The evil increased and Yahweh faced His dilemma. Does He destroy His Creation as is His perfect and sovereign right or does He save His Creation out of love?
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I'm having a lot of trouble with the timetable of your creation myth. See the universe is filled with clocks, and they disagree with your start time.



CLOCKS


Visit any limestone cave. Stalactites grow at a rate of about 1mm per 10 years. So a 10 meter stalactite has been growing about 100,000 years. And close examination of cross sections shows the year by year layering (where rainfall is seasonal). These stalactites can be found all over the world. The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating.

Tree rings are clocks. The oldest living tree goes back about 4800 years. But wood from dead trees can contain records of volcanic events, thus extending the record back much farther.
Originally developed for climate science, the method is now an invaluable tool for archaeologists, who can track up to 13,000 years of history using tree ring chronologies for over 4,000 sites on six continents.
The ages are corroborated by radiometric carbon dating (establishing age by measuring ratios of radioactive vs stable isotopes).

Seasonal snowfall on glaciers accumulates to form countable layers. Greenland ice sheet layers can be counted back about 110,000 years. The ages are corroborated by radiometric dating. Other glaciers go back as far as 700,000 years, but on those the older data is mostly radiometric dating.

Salt flows from rocks into lakes and the ocean. If no salt left the ocean, that would give an age of 50 million to 70 million years. However, various geologic processes cause salt to leave the ocean at about the rate it's entering, so 50 million to 70 million years becomes a minimum estimate of the age of the earth.

Layering of sedimentary rocks - such as in the Grand Canyon - forms a series of clocks. These layers correspond to different stages in the evolution of life on the planet. The layers can be dated by positional order (bottom layer formed first), sedimentation rate, age of fossils found in the layer, and of course, radiometric dating. There are five main isotope pairs used for dating sedimentary rocks as well as the 'fissile track' method; you can read about it all here:
https://australian.museum/learn/minerals/shaping-earth/radioactive-dating/

Then there's all the fossils of extinct animals found in the rock layers. They're not exactly a clock, but they are an indicator of the vast amounts of time over which evolution occurs.

Of course outer space offers many clocks. Accumulation of craters on airless bodies like the Moon forms a clock. Shells of glowing gas left over from novas and supernovas form clocks (the Lambda Orionis Ring is about 1 million years old). The redshift of light from galaxies billions of light years away form clocks. The Hubble expansion of the universe forms a clock. The frequency shift of big bang radiation to form the cosmic microwave background is a clock.

No one clock is perfect, but they all corroborate each other pretty well, and they ALL give life FAR MORE than 6000 years to evolve.

If you argue "God hid those dinosaur bones (and all the isotopes used for dating) in the rocks" I can't disprove it. If you argue "God built all those layers into the glaciers and into stalactites, made the nova remnants appear millions of years old, etc." I can't disprove it. But you've got to ask yourself, why would God put all these inter-corroborating clocks all over the Earth and all thru the galaxy if they were all false???
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues Son you have trouble reading a clock. Your supposed science in nonsense. We will just leave it at that.
karysma · 36-40, F
@ElwoodBlues How do you calculate the age of rocks and mountains. By a man made device. That's unreliable
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@karysma When you have no idea what something looked like when it started you have no way of saying how long it has been there based on what it looks like now.
@karysma And yet all these different clocks all tell the same story - that the Earth and the universe are FAR FAR older than the 6000 year biblical timetable.

If you argue "God hid those dinosaur bones (and all the isotopes used for dating) in the rocks" I can't disprove it. If you argue "God built all those layers into the glaciers and into stalactites, made the nova remnants appear millions of years old, etc." I can't disprove it. But you've got to ask yourself, why would God put all these inter-corroborating clocks all over the Earth and all thru the galaxy if they were all false???
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues If you don't know what it looked like at the beginning you have no idea how long it took to get the way it is now. You make the foolish assumption that everything is the result of natural causes when in fact everything is here by Super Natural CAUSE.
karysma · 36-40, F
@ElwoodBlues People interpret things any way they please. It's been happening since the beginning of time. Don't believe everything you hear. @hippyjoe1955 I totally agree with you.
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@karysma If someone builds a house and makes it look rustic someone else might assume that the house is much older than it appears because the builder made it look older. Finding stalactites and stalagmites in caves and thinking that that is a measure of how old the cave is is silly if you don't know what the cave looked like when it started. Assuming that the cave was 'caused' by erosion or whatever is also nonsense if you accept the FACT that God created the cave. The plants and animals etc were full grown when they were created.
@hippyjoe1955 Sure. That's just what I said. I just have to "accept" that God built all this deception into the universe. Do I get to ask why God would do that?

If you argue "God hid those dinosaur bones (and all the isotopes used for dating) in the rocks" I can't disprove it. If you argue "God built all those layers into the glaciers and into stalactites, made the nova remnants appear millions of years old, etc." I can't disprove it. But you've got to ask yourself, why would God put all these inter-corroborating clocks all over the Earth and all thru the galaxy if they were all false???
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues What deception? You reading something that isn't there is your problem not the one who wrote the story. Silly you for not using your head for more than an ear spacer.
karysma · 36-40, F
@hippyjoe1955 That's right. It's like the chickens the stores sell. They only take 6 weeks to mature while the natural chicken takes 6 months. You can't tell they're just little chicks by just looking at them that they're enhanced. They look so fresh and healthy.
@karysma
How do you calculate the age of rocks and mountains. By a man made device. That's unreliable
Check out the bit about tree rings. That's just counting - a pretty reliable process - and that record goes back 13,000 years and is corroborated by C14 dating.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/how-tree-rings-date-archaeological-site
@hippyjoe1955
What deception?
13,000 years of tree rings on a planet that's allegedly 6000 years old. THAT deception. Which is corroborated by all the other clocks.
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues How many rings did the trees have when they were created? When did the trees live and when did they die? You have nothing there that proves a thing beyond your own bias. Nice try though.
karysma · 36-40, F
@ElwoodBlues I don't believe something just because someone told me so. I know little about nature and since I didn't create anything that existed since the beginning of time I'm neither gonna confirm or deny anything. I do believe God exits because I've had an encounter with him. I do believe there's the spirit world because I've witnessed supernatural manifestations in the past.
@karysma
I do believe God exits because I've had an encounter with him.
Makes perfect sense to me. I know plenty of scientists and students of nature who believe in God.

However, in my mind it's kind of a big leap from belief in a Deity & Creator to belief that every word in the Bible should be interpreted as literally true. The Bible is full of parables; perhaps the 7 day creation is one of those parables.
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues Mind? You think you have a mind? You mindlessly post drivel that the paid credentialed puppets put out. Nothing you have to say is new or original or even that well thought out. Kind of sad really but such is you and you be you.
@hippyjoe1955 Nice ad hominem fallacy there, dude!!

hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues Just pointing out the obvious. You have no scientific background and thus are prone to believing anything the paid credentialed clowns tell you. Such is obvious with every post you make. That is not ad hominem that is true. Kind of sad really. Maybe if you actually did some real science and not just rely on 'experts'. you would get farther in life.
@hippyjoe1955
You have no scientific background
FALSE! ROTFL!!!
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues TRUE!!!! ROTFL!!!!
@hippyjoe1955 I'm going to turn the other cheek to your lies and your unchristian personal attacks. I'll just mention that you are setting a terrible example when you behave this way.

@karysma
I do believe God exits because I've had an encounter with him.
Makes perfect sense to me. I know plenty of scientists and students of nature who believe in God. For myself, I'm agnostic.

However, in my mind it's kind of a big leap from belief in a Deity & Creator to belief that every word in the Bible should be interpreted as literally true. The Bible is full of parables; perhaps the 7 day creation is one of those parables.
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues The simple fact is if you had a scientific background you wouldn't post the nonsense you do because you would know that such nonsense is not backed up by science. Nice try though. You did give it the old college effort.
karysma · 36-40, F
@ElwoodBlues I don't think the 7 day creation is a parable but then again the Bible is full of hidden mysteries that a being revealed on a daily basis.
@hippyjoe1955 @karysma Interestingly, on another thread, @hippyjoe1955 is talking about the cretaceous period, which lasted from 140 million years ago to the end of the dinosaurs, 66 million years ago. So it seems @hippyjoe1955 isn't really so much of a believer in 7-day creation as he purports to be here.

So which is it, @hippyjoe1955? Do you believe in the 7-day creation that occurred 6000 years ago? Or do you believe vast amounts of limestone were formed by corals over a period of 75 million years?

What do you think all the limestone is made of? CO2 The CO2 levels in the cretaceous period was about 6000 ppm. It is now around 400 ppm. What happened to all the CO2? The corals etc turned it into limestone. If you don't know that then there is no hope for you and your silly theories.
Found in https://similarworlds.com/environment/climate-change/4415286-A-picture-for-the-AGW-crowd-Make-of-it-what-you?sort=1
hippyjoe1955 · 70-79, M
@ElwoodBlues You seem to make all kinds of silly assumptions about me. Strange how you blame me for your mistakes. Amazing.