Here's a fun question. If everything is unfolding according to God's plan, is murder wrong?

Before you answer, consider this. According to christianity, God knows everything that will unfold, and has already accounted for it. So literally everything that happens is part of his plan. Presumably, this includes murder and any other horror the human mind can conceive. So I ask again: In such a system, is murder wrong? And if so, does that mean God's plan is wrong?

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Roadsterrider · 56-60, M

Murder is something that mankind came up with, why do you attribute it to God? When a lifesaving medical procedure or medicine is found that saves 1000s of lives do you attribute that to his plan as well, or just the negative?

The rules were laid out for Adam and Eve, they still had free will to follow the rules or to do as they wished. The Bible is very clear about murder being wrong, but he doesn't just zap every murderer with a bolt of lightning.

I believe there is a plan and certain things have to happen for his plan, I don't think that he has every detail planned down to the tiniest act or individual person. If there is something that I am supposed to do in that plan and I don't do it, it will get done by someone else. I don't see myself as an irreplaceable cog in the story. I think God has a plan just like the CEO of a business has a plan, he sees the future of his work but really doesn't control every aspect of the mailroom clerk's daily tasks. And if the clerk goes AWOL, someone else will receive packages and ship packages. We all have free will to do as we please.

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@Roadsterrider I don't attribute anything to God. In fact, I think people created God. But according to Christians, God created everything, and he has a plan that anticipates everything that happens. And according to Christians, God is all knowing, which means he knows literally everything that is going to happen, in every possible universe. When you have that level of omniscience, you don't get the copout of "Oh, ahh, I gave you free will, and you didn't do what I wanted you to do with it!" Because he knew. He knew damn well what would happen when he put Adam and Eve smack in the middle of that garden with that oh-so-tempting tree, with that super persuasive snake. He knew exactly how that would turn out.

Now here you are, saying God isn't omniscient. You're saying God doesn't know everything, and only has a plan in the loosest sense. That contradicts everything Christians have told me.

Roadsterrider · 56-60, M

@LordShadowfire I didn't say he wasn't omniscient, I said I don't think he micro manages every detail of every human on the planet.

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@Roadsterrider Details like the Holocaust? Or did he plan that one?

Roadsterrider · 56-60, M

@LordShadowfire If you read the Bible, the whole story is there. God created Adam and Eve and they had children, Cain and Abel and others. Cain was jealous of Abel and killed him, God asked Cain where his brother was, and Cain responded angrily "Am I my brother's keeper?" God then chastised Cain for killing his brother and cursed him and branded him a murderer. God didn't plan it and punished the guilty party. I personally don't think God planned the holocaust or Jim Jones, or war or any of the bad stuff humans do. Could he have stopped it? I believe so. Why didn't he? My opinion is that he doesn't micromanage. We are expected to keep our own house clean. I don't think everything is written in stone and every person has an expiration date, there are places in the scripture that lend credence to this opinion, at least for me. Thou shalt honor thy mother and father that thy days may be long upon the earth. It says in the Bible that the span of a man is 3 score and 10 years. But my days may be lengthened by honoring the commandment. Before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham negotiated with God about how many righteous people might be found there and cause him to change his mind. Abraham didn't come up with enough righteous men to satisfy his negotiation though. The Bible is full of stuff that needs to be thought about and a person has to make up their own mind on what is right or wrong.

LordShadowfire · 46-50, M

@Roadsterrider K, so you're saying God knew exactly how it would all turn out, but he chose to sit back and let it happen. He could have prevented millions of people from dying horribly, but according to you, he's not a "micromanager", so he doesn't give a fuck.