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Is the sealing of the saints in Revelation 7 something to happen in future only?

Revelation
7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Adstar · 56-60, M
In the future..

And they are of the 144,000 the Bible does not call them Saints.. They are descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel.. Other scriptures in Revelation describe them as innocents having never known a woman..

And yes it will happen during the time of the wrath being poured out upon the earth at the times of the return of Jesus..
fellowchristian · 70-79, M
@Adstar The first group of 144000 is the complete number of those being sealed from all the 12 tribes of Israel at a given time John seeing the angel carrying the seal of God.

Read the scripture carefully.

At the given time John witnessing the angel with the seal, that angel is talking to other 4 angels. From the dialogue, it is evident that he has not completed his task of sealing all the God's servants although he completed sealing all those who are servants of God from 12 tribes of Israel.
Obviously, they are old testament saints. Before the crucifixion of Lord Jesus Christ, only those from Israel was servants of God and sealed for that reason.
ArishMell · 70-79, M
@Adstar I see.... I think.

What though of all those who follow some other religion equally true unto themselves, beyond the Abrahamic faiths? (The Christian Bible is just a collation of older Judaic books.)

What is supposed to happen - at the hands of an apparently very destructive and vengeful God - and when? Anyone can "prophesy" some nebulous far-future event based on no calendar; and if you pitch it in the right way to the right audience, enough of them will believe it for it to survive!

That one thousand gross looks a suspiciously neat number; probably far from the real Middle Eastern Jewish population at the time, though I don't suppose we have any way of knowing what that was. I doubt it was intended to be numerically exact though.

The whole things looks like a vivid dream inspired by religious fervour mixed with dodgy plant extracts, and yes, such combinations were common among the ancients. So what the heck was its basic point, beyond all the fantasy?
Adstar · 56-60, M
@ArishMell
@Adstar I see.... I think.

What though of all those who follow some other religion equally true unto themselves, beyond the Abrahamic faiths? (The Christian Bible is just a collation of older Judaic books.)

The Bible is divided into two parts called the Old testament and the New testament.. The old testament has 39 books which are older Judaic books.. But the New testament has 27 books.. Yes the majority of the text in the Bible are Judaic..

I believe as a Christian that when a person hears or read the message of Jesus so that they then have the option of accepting or rejecting the message of Jesus then their eternal destiny is destermined by their response to His message.. So it matters not what religion abrahamic or otherwise they are currently in.. Once they hear the message of Jesus they are then judged on their reponse to it..

What is supposed to happen - at the hands of an apparently very destructive and vengeful God - and when? Anyone can "prophesy" some nebulous far-future event based on no calendar; and if you pitch it in the right way to the right audience, enough of them will believe it for it to survive!

Yes a just God will avenge those who persecute His people.. Thats a good thing.. And yes there are and since the time of Jesus on earth there has always been a number of people in every generation who believe the prophecies of the Bible.. And yes the Bible has survived for near 2000 years..

That one thousand gross looks a suspiciously neat number; probably far from the real Middle Eastern Jewish population at the time,

What? 1000? where ae you getting that number from? at the time?? what time?

The whole things looks like a vivid dream inspired by religious fervour mixed with dodgy plant extracts, and yes, such combinations were common among the ancients. So what the heck was its basic point, beyond all the fantasy?

It was a vision, that happened to John on the island of Patmos.. No plant extracts needed.. And no fantasy involved.. The book of Revelation was God giving Christians revelations on who Jesus is and what would happen into the future untill the time of the completion of the program and our entery into eternity with Him.. It lets Christians know that there will be an end to the way things are in this world and that God has things all pre-planned and foreknows the future..
fellowchristian · 70-79, M
@Adstar They are called "servants ( δούλοις doulos) of God. They are obviously saints.
You are telling they are the people living in the time of end time wrath. If so, they are definitely called saints in many verses in the book of Revelation.

Read the given Bible portion above carefully.
At the time of John seeing the angel with the seal of God, he is on duty sealing those who are servants of God.
John heard the number who are already stamped from all tribes of Israel.
But from the words the angel with the seal, shouting to other four angels it is evident that he has not finished his task of sealing God's servants.
We can infer,
(1) The stamping of all the servants of God from all the tribes of Israel is completed.
(2) The angel has not completed his task of sealing saints of God.

It is evident that John is witnessing a scene which is ongoing but after completion of stamping servants of God with a reason "from one of the tribes of Israel".

No more servant of God is going to be added to the symolic number 144000 thereforth although angel with seal is still on his duty and mission of stamping servants of God of heaven.

John is brought to a vision which is to tell the saints of churches in Asia Minor that all the old testament saints are servants of God of heaven as with all the saints from New Testament age. (John 10:16)

These 144000 are then called "Those redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. "
(Revelation 14:4, Gal 4:4, Jer 2:3)
If thease 144000 are tribulation saints, how can they accompany the Lamb (Rev14:1) on His onset for second coming while there are saints waiting for Him on earth? (Rev 24:12).
Please reply.
Adstar · 56-60, M
@fellowchristian

Are Saints Servents of God or are they Adopted Children of God ????

(Romans 8:15-17) "For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. {16} The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: {17} And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
fellowchristian · 70-79, M
@Adstar who is Paul?
Romans 1:1 Paul, a [b]servant of Jesus Christ, [/b]called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Who is James?
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Who is Jude?
Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
ArishMell · 70-79, M
No harm in believing it if that's your choice, but we cannot know what the author really meant.

Its very exclusive, Israel-first message and colourful prose looks like a strange mixture of what we would call "nationalism", shamanism and its contemporary Judaic-tribal religion.

The inherent advantage of an undated "prophecy" is that it can recede into the future for ever-more! Those that are dated but fail, simply lapse into that section of History labelled "Errors and Eccentricities".

Remember the fuss and palaver about that Mayan calendar supposedly giving its own end time as early in the 21C? Or the imagined digital 1999/2000 apocalypse? Funny how their relevant years came and went without whatever was meant to happen, doing so!
How can it be done now, when we have all sinned??? Makes sense that God will want the most repenent for his tribe
fellowchristian · 70-79, M
@HootyTheNightOwl Are you not redeemed from sin?
@fellowchristian Do you not continue to sin - even after baptism???
fellowchristian · 70-79, M
@HootyTheNightOwl Do you believe, you are redeemed by Jesus Christ and so a son of God?
Or you still a sinner worth going to hell only?
Baremine · 70-79, C
It is during the tribulation. The 144 thousand are sealed and preach to the world.
fellowchristian · 70-79, M
@Baremine 😊 Where in the Bible, we read they are those preaching gospel during great tribulation? 2 Tim 4:3,4)
Carazaa · F
I think it is 144,000 Jews that are saved during the great tribulation or at the end.
fellowchristian · 70-79, M
@Carazaa please read my reply to @Adstar
Well, it not happened yet, so the future seems to be the only option.
fellowchristian · 70-79, M
@TwiddlerofThumbs Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
We are sealed, but that day is yet to come.
Carazaa · F
I believe so.

 
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