I don't understand Christianity

@Theyitis Sounds nice to those who want to believe in nice sounding false doctrine.. Sadly it's a lot easier to sell universalism with it's no hell and everyone goes to heaven.. But the scriptures make it clear that such a doctrine is false.. Yeah it is harder to preach the actual truth because people who don't really believe God or trust in the Atonement of Jesus need to find assurance elsewhere.. There is a market for those nice sounding doctrines and a lot of people who want to have their ears tickled by them..

@Adstar Blah blah. It’s harder to preach what you claim to know as “the actual truth” because it’s logically unsound. Tell me, have you ever caused anyone unlimited suffering and isolation for the rest of eternity? I’m going to assume you haven’t and that you don’t know anyone who has. So how could a just God, let alone a kind, merciful God, inflict such a punishment on one or more of his own children?

@Theyitis [quote]Tell me, have you ever caused anyone unlimited suffering and isolation for the rest of eternity?[/quote]

No.. How could i? I am just a mere mortal.. God is the one who makes that call on the day of judgement..

[quote]So how could a just God, let alone a kind, merciful God, inflict such a punishment on one or more of his own children?[/quote]

Because He is just and perfect...He cannot turn a blind eye to transgressions against what is good.. So any sin makes one imperfect.. God is perfect and His eternity shall be perfect.. So He cannot allow an imperfect unforgiven sinner to enter into His eternal perfect existence.. Gods perfect love does not allow Him to corruptly turn a blind eye to sin.. Oh and His perfect love makes Him Very merciful indeed,, He will forgive without failure anyone who acknowledges their sins need His forgiveness and who trust in the Way He has made for those sins to be forgiven.. Of course that is through having the death penalty for their sins paid in full by The LORD Jesus Christ who paid it when He was sacrificed on the cross..

Jesus said his yoke was lite.. And it is.. All we need to do is believe Him and trust that His atonement on the cross pays the penalty for our transgressions..

Now you may say blah blah blah again but it does not change the ultimate reality..

@Theyitis Contrary to belief, hell is real, and God told us how to avoid it. God has set limits, just as law enforcement has set limits; but God is long suffering, in that He is not willing that ANY should perish.

Man's laws and God's laws, were put into effect for our good and safety. If you kill someone in society, you risk getting the death penalty. You have disobeyed the laws enforced by man. Yet, we are not under the law right now. Spiritually speaking, that is. We are under grace...UNEARNED FAVOR from God; though God's laws still apply, and if not taken seriously, puts us at risk of spiritual death...eternal separation from God....UNLESS those offenses are forgiven by Jesus before we die.

What most do not realize here, is that God doesn't make quick judgments. He gave people in Noah's time and in the time of Sodum and Gemmorah, over a hundred years to repent. Still, they refused to listen.

If God had been willing that we go to hell, he would not have made us perfect in the very beginning...before [b]we[/b] decided to disobey his laws. And just as a Judge's decisions are to be just, God's judgements are even more just, because He never makes a mistake! He makes certain all are treated the same, and fairly. He is incapable of error. Only our sins keep us separated from God....[b]until they are forgiven[/b]. God is fair...sin is not! Sin, not God...condemns us to hell.

Further, His laws are just as serious as our laws. That's because our sinful offenses, separate us from God our Father in Heaven. God takes that VERY personal and serious. HE NEVER HATES PEOPLE----PERIOD. If he did, he certainly would not have given his life on the cross to try and save us from the consequences of sin.

Would you die for someone if you didn't have to? Jesus had to fix what man messed up, because we could not save ourselves. God the Father cannot LOOK upon sin, as He is holy. Therefore, Jesus was appointed by the Father as our only mediator between God and man, so He could fix what man broke. He didn't have to do that...but he did. If he hadn't, we would have all gone to hell. Yet, Jesus was not forced to do that. He volunteered. I think that more than shows, just how much he loves us and wants us to be in heaven with him. He did not LEAVE us in our sinful state, without a remedy. If anyone chooses to refuse his free gift of salvation, that's not his fault. Man has his own free will. And if man says to God, "I want nothing to do with you! I want NO part of you, God won't force you to seek eternal life. It's you that made the choice for God, and he'll honor your request.

@Theyitis [quote]I still like to think of myself as a Christian. I don’t just take the Bible “literally”, but as I was taught in college, I try to understand it through the “three worlds”: historical, literary, and contemporary. Most of the rest of your issues simply disappear if, like I did, you stop believing in the existence of hell. There’s no particular need to believe in it, the Bible doesn’t say much about it. The contemporary fire and brimstone image of hell originated in Dante’s Inferno. Jesus died on the cross for everyone’s sins. If you have to say a prayer accepting Christ to get to Heaven, then Christ didn’t save you, you saved yourself! So I’m kind of thinking maybe just everyone goes to Heaven when they die.[/quote]

Jesus only cared about the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews. He didn't give a damn about anyone else. Paul is the character that said that Jesus cared about others but there is no dialogue by the Jesus character that says that he does.

According to the fairy tale, when people die they go to one of three places: death; the sea; or hell. All three are temporary and everyone gets out on Judgment Day. Death and hell are tossed into the lake of fire. Just because you spent time in hell it won't stop you from getting getting on the new planet with the giant golden cube called New Jerusalem. You may even be able to get into the golden cube if you haven't done things like being a dog, sorcerer, sexually immoral, murderer, idolater, or a liar (Revelation 22:15 (AMP) = "Outside are the dogs [the godless, the impure, those of low moral character] and the sorcerers [with their intoxicating drugs, and magic arts], and the immoral persons [the perverted, the molesters, and the adulterers], and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying (deception, cheating)."

Or course it says in Revelation 20:12-15 (AMP = "12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the Book of Life; and the dead were judged according to what they had done as written in the books [that is, everything done while on earth]. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and death and Hades (the realm of the dead) surrendered the dead who were in them; and they were judged and sentenced, every one according to their deeds. 14 Then death and Hades [the realm of the dead] were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire [the eternal separation from God]. 15 And if [a]anyone’s name was not found [b]written in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire."

Christians keep making the mistake of visualizing the Islamic hell as their hell. In the Islamic version you stay dead until Judgment Day and then you get resurrected. The good guys get their own individual paradises with their harem, two 90-foot-tall translucent women creatures, a herd of cute boys, an eternal erection, and rivers of wine. Most of the people in the Islamic hell are women. Everyone in hell gets tortured for eternity.

Remember, in the biblical version hell gets tossed into the lake of fire. No one spends eternity in the biblical hell. So, know your hells.

@Adstar Last I checked you weren’t the one in charge of the ultimate reality, you have no way of knowing that’s how it is.

The punishment still doesn’t fit the crime. Nobody has ever caused anybody else unlimited suffering and isolation for the rest of eternity, so nobody deserves to have it visited on them, even if they didn’t ask forgiveness for some of their sins.

As I said before, Jesus paid the price on the cross for all of us to get into Heaven. Now you’re going to say that wasn’t good enough unless we pray to accept him as our savior? What if nobody had prayed to accept Christ as their savior? Would he have just died for nothing? If you have to do something, anything, to get into Heaven, then you got in through your own works, not by God’s grace. You could boast about that. Jesus didn’t save you, you saved yourself. But that’s not what the Bible teaches, it teaches that Christ saved us all.

One more thing, you accused me of just telling people what they want to hear. I would counter that more people probably want to hear what you’re saying, and it’s certainly easier for you to believe that. You’re a Christian, so you already know you’re not going to hell, so that doesn’t apply to you, nor probably to anyone you care about a lot. It applies mainly to people who are not like you, many of whom you likely view as your enemies. Hell is primarily used as a tool to try to scare people into converting to Christianity, or to give them comfort that their enemies will suffer in eternity. It’s more controversial then to believe that your enemies will share your reward in Heaven and that fear need not be a motivating factor in one’s decision to convert.

@Theyitis [quote]@Adstar Last I checked you weren’t the one in charge of the ultimate reality, you have no way of knowing that’s how it is.[/quote]

You can decide to accept or reject any message you receive Theyitis.. But don't reject something just because it sounds hard to you and don't accept something because it sounds good to you.. The truth is far more important then feels.. In the end i share information that saves if accepted and destroys if it is rejected.. That's what the Gospel does..

[quote]The punishment still doesn’t fit the crime. [/quote]

And the reward of eternity in Gods perfect eternal existence does not fit any pathetic attempt we make at paying for it in our short faulty lives on earth.. But surprise surprise i don't see universalist shaking their fists at god proclaiming it is unfair for Him to bless/ reward people far too much for far to little effort.. If you preached against Gods blessing as much as you preach against Gods judgement then you may have gained some credibility.. But nope people life you want to embrace all the ""good stuff"" and reject all the hard stuff and treat the World of God like a smorgasbord, only accepting the stuff you like and ""interpreting"" away the stuff that you don't like..

[quote]As I said before, Jesus paid the price on the cross for all of us to get into Heaven. Now you’re going to say that wasn’t good enough unless we pray to accept him as our savior? [/quote]

Don't tell me what i am going to say.. Your talking with me not a projected character of your own imaginary creation.. Yes Jesus paid the price for all the sins of all humanity over all history and Now if offers that payment as a gift to each and ever person INDIVIDUALLY.. The Individual must acknowledge their need for His Atonement and accept it to have it.. A gift cannot be had if the person who it is offered to refuses to accept it.. So Jesus only pays the penalty of the sins of people who accept His Atoning gift..

[quote]What if nobody had prayed to accept Christ as their savior? Would he have just died for nothing?[/quote]

He would have foreknown that nobody would accept that gift and so he would probably never have come down to earth to obtain it.. But He foreknew that those who love the truth would accept it with joy and so He suffered death out of love to save those who love the truth but have no ability to live up to the standards of the truth..

[quote]If you have to do something, anything, to get into Heaven, then you got in through your own works, not by God’s grace.[/quote]

The Bible declares that Faith is not a Works.. I will trust in the Bible definition of what works is and not what some scripture twisting ear tickling deceiver interprets works to be..

(Romans 4:3-8) "For what saith the scripture? [c=4C0073][u]Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness[/u][/c]. {4} Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. {5} [c=4C0073]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.[/c] {6} Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom [c=7700B2]God imputeth righteousness without works[/c], {7} Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. {8} Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

[quote] You’re a Christian, so you already know you’re not going to hell, so that doesn’t apply to you, nor probably to anyone you care about a lot. It applies mainly to people who are not like you, many of whom you likely view as your enemies.[/quote]

More unrighteous projection.. More mud slinging.. You're right i that i am a Christian and as such i believe Jesus when He said that we should LOVE our Enemies.. And i Love those who are enemies towards me by sharing with them the truth that if accepted will see them Redeemed.. So you are a universalist enemy towards Christianity and i am sharing with you the truth that saves and giving you warning that universalism is a false doctrine leading people to the eternal lake of fire.. Now is that a pleasant experience for me?? Nope.. I face denigration and accusations and projecting for people like you every other day.. Sharing the truth is not fun when the truth is hated by people like you so often.. But out of love for the truth and love for my enemy i should walk an extra mile with haters in the hope that a seed of truth might be planted in their conscience and the Holy Spirit will work on them to move them to accept the truth. His will be done..

[quote]Hell is primarily used as a tool to try to scare people into converting to Christianity,[/quote]

Fear is a good thing.. In this world fear of danger makes people avoid danger and keep a keen lookout for sources of danger.. And what does the Bible say about the fear of God??

(Proverbs 9:10) "[c=7700B2]The fear of the LORD is the [u]beginning[/u] of wisdom[/c]: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."

So fear of God causes people to investigate God, to find out about Gods will, to seek to get right with God.. The fear of God is a great motivator to investigate God to find the Way to be in the right relationship with God, to be good with God.. And what happens when someone accepts the Word of God in it's totality.. They discover the love of God, the Way He made to lovingly save us So a Christian ends up not fearing God at all.. The scriptures declare::

(1 John 4:18-19) "[c=7700B2]There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. [u]He that feareth is not made perfect in love[/u][/c]. {19} We love him, because he first loved us."

As you declared a Christian has no cause for fear of Hell.. But people who have not fully accepted the truth of the love of God still fear hell and the eternal lake of fire.. So what do they do?? they embrace false doctrines like universalism grasping onto the lie that there is no Hell or Lake of Fire.. Why do they need this doctrine?? Because they have not fully believed in the gift of the Atonement of The LORD Jesus..

[quote]Hell is primarily used as a tool to try to scare people into converting to Christianity, or to give them comfort that their enemies will suffer in eternity. It’s more controversial then to believe that your enemies will share your reward in Heaven and that fear need not be a motivating factor in one’s decision to convert.[/quote]

When i converted to Christianity i never did so because of fear of Hell or desire for heaven.. I converted because i loved the message of Jesus and His loving self sacrifice to pay for my sins.. The awesome wisdom in the Way God made to Redeem me.. The solution to my sin problem was exquisite.. I was flabbergasted when i discovered that the one and only awesome God of all existence cared enough for me to suffer the horrendous death He went through on earth.. And i was and still am so unworthy of this perfect love..