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O Felix Culpa

In other discussions with Christians here (discussions?.....馃榾 ) I have spoken of Christianity having a greater breadth, width and depth than their own Protestant Reform theologies appear to suggest. This met with the usual nonsense.

Rather than debate with them, I thought I would mention the "O Felix Culpa" of the Catholic Church, but understood more deeply in the great Eastern Orthodox Tradition.

[i]Felix culpa is a Latin phrase that comes from the words felix, meaning "happy," "lucky," or "blessed" and culpa, meaning "fault" or "fall". In the Catholic tradition, the phrase is most often translated "happy fault", as in the Catholic Exsultet. Other translations include "blessed fall" or "fortunate fall"[/i]

The fall (obviously mythic.....who on earth actually "fell"...Cro magnon man? Neanderthal Man?) understood not as a shocking rebellion against God but as something offering blessings. Another image of God evolves.

Think about it or not. It is our choice.

Just to add, one book I am now dipping into is on the artistic depictions of the Resurrection in the first millennium. There were two sorts. One, Christ is shown alone, rising in glory. In others, He rises hand in hand with Adam, with Eve, with All. The former became part of the iconography of the West, the latter of the Eastern Church.

As I see it, the consequences are fairly obvious.
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All this has much to do with Theodicy, the attempt to "justify" God in the face of our world's suffering. In the face of all the pain and sorrow.

As is happening now in the Ukraine.

(On this, note the response here of many Christians who claim to be "spirit led", seeing truths that the "natural man" is blind too. All they rabbit on about is the signs of the "End Times" and the "fulfillment" of prophecies. Quite frankly, it is pathetic - their Saviour embraces and shares the suffering. They justify it and see it as "proof" of their own peculiar theologies)
Diotrephes70-79, M
@Tariki Here's an idiot who serves as a very good example for your thoughts =

"Pat Robertson: Putin is "being compelled by God" to invade Ukraine and fulfill biblical prophecy
"You read your Bible, because it's coming to pass," the former televangelist says"
https://www.salon.com/2022/03/01/pat-robertson-putin-is-being-compelled-by-god-to-invade-ukraine-and-fulfill-biblical-prophecy_partner/
@Diotrephes Exactly.

I suppose some can think "O shut up Tariki!"

I almost drifted away yesterday evening. Really, better things to be doing than crossing swords here with some of the self-commending here. Grandchildren, playing the guitar, cracking another level of Soda Candy Crush Saga.

But here I am again. For better or worse.

馃榾 馃槑
Bushranger70-79, M
@Diotrephes That's just wrong on so many levels. He should have stayed in retirement.
Diotrephes70-79, M
@Bushranger I thought he was dead. He's like a zombie. The thing is that there are some people in government who believes as he does and they can steer things in such a way as to make it happen. It doesn't take that many people to sink the ship.
Bushranger70-79, M
@Diotrephes If only you were wrong.
Bushranger70-79, M
@Diotrephes We currently have a Christian Prime Minister, but I don't think he'll be able to pass too many laws that will cause problems. However, his Religious Discrimination Bill is a concern.
Diotrephes70-79, M
@Bushranger The thing is that if a law is intended to allow such things but does not give people the right to engage in animal and human sacrifices it is being discriminatory and favoring some religions over others.

The bottom line is that far too many people are completely nuts when it comes to religious issues and it can be a very serious mistake to allow them free rein in their practices.
Bushranger70-79, M
@Diotrephes We supposedly have separation of church and state, but nothing like the 1st Ammendment that I'm aware of. But it may be interesting to see what challenges will be made if the bill gets up.
@Diotrephes "Completely nuts"? What on earth do you mean!

馃槑
@Diotrephes The ridiculous thing is that when I looked into all this "end times" stuff about 50 years ago totally different events were heralded as the "fulfilment".

Same sort of thing with the Quran where various verses are seen and claimed to be "revelations" of only recently discovered findings of science.

At bottom, pure [i][b]lack of faith[/b][/i].
Bushranger70-79, M
@Tariki I'd like you to expand on the first paragraph, please. What were the different events? It was my understanding that a literal interpretation of Revelation has been used, with current events twisted to fit the narrative. Or is that the point you are making?

Serious question, I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts on this.
@Bushranger Hi, just going from memory. There are various sets of numbers mentioned and one scenario related a certain number to what was then the number of countries in the EU. The EU was some kind of "beast".

But this was long ago and I simply know that I was far more impressed by the scholarship of those that related the "prophecies" to actual events that had already taken place within the then Roman Empire. The whole point, and the writers intent, seemed to be not prophecy but simply consolation being offered to the early christians then suffering persecution and condemnation.

The book of Revelation continues to "inspire" various people, not only Christians. A quick Google can bring up various articles by scholars not of the lunatic fringe.
Bushranger70-79, M
@Tariki I agree with you. However, there's quite a few people who consider every word of the Bible to be literal fact, instead of allegory and poetry.
@Bushranger Yes, obviously. The lunatic fringe.
Bushranger70-79, M
@Tariki I just hope they remain on the fringe.
@Bushranger There seem to be substantial numbers in the US. With political power/influence.
Bushranger70-79, M
@Tariki It would be interesting to know what percentage of the population these people represent. There influence on government may, hopefully, be a squeaky wheel situation.
@Bushranger I really don't know. As I see it there are those who actually believe in such a way, and then there are those in power who are prepared, cynically, to use and make the most out of it for their own agendas. Politically [i]and[/i] in terms of the book sales based upon such lunacy.