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1354swrdt · 70-79, M
This of course is the standard liberal view that has gone out of date now in scholarship. It is based on the assumption that Christianity was a western religion rather than a Jewish one. Paul of course was the one with the intellect to see that Jesus was the Messiah in fulfilment of the Jewish scriptures and the intellect to put this down. Unless you grasp the fact that he is writing from the point of view of second temple Judaism you will not see this. Paul’s working out of Jesus’ teaching is quite clear - he is the Messiah in fulfilment of the Jewish scriptures in which he had been steep since birth. He was a ‘Hebrew of the Hebrews’ hence in a unique position to make clear just how those scriptures had been fulfilled. Unfortunately German scholarship with its antisemitism made Paul out to be some form of anti-Semite which is of course the most ludicrous charge one could have brought. What you are saying is based on your own total misunderstanding of Paul and the purpose of the gospel
@1354swrdt
I think maybe you misunderstand .I'm not saying that Paul made the religion up out of whole cloth or that he wasn't working off what he learned about Jesus.
My argument is simply that in the NT we hear way, way, [i]way[/i] more about what Paul thinks about Christianity and how people should be doing it than we ever here about Jesus' own ministry.
Hence Paulism.
I think maybe you misunderstand .I'm not saying that Paul made the religion up out of whole cloth or that he wasn't working off what he learned about Jesus.
My argument is simply that in the NT we hear way, way, [i]way[/i] more about what Paul thinks about Christianity and how people should be doing it than we ever here about Jesus' own ministry.
Hence Paulism.
1354swrdt · 70-79, M
This is of course a view which actually ignores what is in the New Testament . Paul was far nearer to the ministry of Jesus than we ever are and indeed claimed that his gospel was taught by Jesus himself. What his task was was to take the teaching of redemption and apply the ‘mystery’ to the early church - that salvation is freely available to both Jews and Gentiles in Christ. This he did with the full backing of the early followers of Christ. They had nothing to add to what he said. What he was able to do with his immense learning was to see how the redemptive work of the Messiah was worked out through the Jewish scriptures. @Pikachu
1354swrdt · 70-79, M
You see you’ve either got to take the likes of Jesus and Paul for who they were or it was the greatest con trick ever on humanity.
As Paul says: 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead.@1354swrdt
As Paul says: 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead.@1354swrdt
@1354swrdt
Well since you've appealed to the authority of C.S Lewis!
lol no.
He might have been a myth. His legacy might have grown in the telling.
Now mix that in with people like Paul who's Damascus road experience could indeed have been a hallucination which nevertheless convinced him of the myth....
Well it's just silly to propose that the options are crazy or true.
Not so.
Well since you've appealed to the authority of C.S Lewis!
lol no.
He might have been a myth. His legacy might have grown in the telling.
Now mix that in with people like Paul who's Damascus road experience could indeed have been a hallucination which nevertheless convinced him of the myth....
Well it's just silly to propose that the options are crazy or true.
Not so.
@1354swrdt
[quote]or it was the greatest con trick ever on humanity.[/quote]
Nah.
Not hard trick to pull if it was a trick.
I mean you have only to look at Joseph Smith (convicted con-man) who nevertheless convinced a lot of people that what he was saying was true and they remain convinced to this day.
But i think i've sufficiently addressed the false dichotomy often offered in my previous post.
[quote]or it was the greatest con trick ever on humanity.[/quote]
Nah.
Not hard trick to pull if it was a trick.
I mean you have only to look at Joseph Smith (convicted con-man) who nevertheless convinced a lot of people that what he was saying was true and they remain convinced to this day.
But i think i've sufficiently addressed the false dichotomy often offered in my previous post.
@1354swrdt
Um...i don't care? Appeal to authority is not a response to the additional options i raised.
I'm not a Jesus mythicist but it's simply myopic to propose such limited options.
How many people do you know who have heard god and been struck blind?
lol sorry, that one is a double edged sword.
But we [i]know[/i] that people hallucinate whether through psychosis or drug induced and these visions can be life changing, true or not.
Um...i don't care? Appeal to authority is not a response to the additional options i raised.
I'm not a Jesus mythicist but it's simply myopic to propose such limited options.
How many people do you know who have heard god and been struck blind?
lol sorry, that one is a double edged sword.
But we [i]know[/i] that people hallucinate whether through psychosis or drug induced and these visions can be life changing, true or not.
@1354swrdt All I'm comparing is how easy it is for even an obvious liar to build a strong following.
I'm not saying that's what happened with Christianiy but it would be dishonest to refuse to acknowledge the possibility or the more modern examples of how it can happen.
I don't think there's really much you can say to that except to affirm your own faith.🤷
I'm not saying that's what happened with Christianiy but it would be dishonest to refuse to acknowledge the possibility or the more modern examples of how it can happen.
I don't think there's really much you can say to that except to affirm your own faith.🤷
Carazaa · F
@1354swrdt Thank you for your witness. Many are being saved and someone just gave their heart to Jesus and told their family who is high rank in another religion. We can see God move mightely in these last days. MANY are being saved right now all over the world! Praise God. His truth is marching on. 🙏