Biden rejects military pay raises

Why is it ok to pay off student loans, while enlisted folks have to live in poverty?

House lawmakers said their 15% pay raise proposal was based on research conducted by a quality-of-life panel convened by the House Armed Services Committee in collaboration with the Defense Department. The panel said junior service members needed a sizable pay increase to keep up with a rising cost of living that can strain the budgets of troops making as little as $24,000 in basic pay. Rep. Mike Rogers of Alabama, the Republican chairman of the committee, sharply criticized the White House for rejecting the proposal. “President Biden believes providing the men and women who serve in our armed forces with adequate compensation is too costly. This is offensive and wrong,” he said in a statement. “Too many military families are relying on food banks, [the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program], and the [Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children] in order to put food on the table. Republicans and Democrats on our committee agreed this is unacceptable.”

Read more at: https://www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2024-06-12/senate-enlisted-troops-pay-raise-house-14160394.html
Source - Stars and Stripes

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dancingtongue · 80-89, M

Just to provide a little context, for which I probably will be roasted.

1. This is for "junior service" personnel for whom housing, all meals, total health care -- the biggest budget item for many these days -- already is part of the compensation package, and for whom discounted merchandize is available at PX's and BX's. Pay is not the only compensation they are receiving. It is a totally volunteer military these days. They chose it for a wide variety of reasons, but frequently as a free education/training in skills that they can transfer to the business world for high paying jobs.

2. Student loan programs were voluntary as well. What is different, imho, is the fact that many were drawn into the student loan programs through fraudulent promises by mostly for-profit educational and training institutions; the loans came from the same scamming financial institutions that brought you the great housing collapse of a few years ago, and when the recipients could begin paying off the loans those banks leaned on the Federal Dept. of Education which had guaranteed the loans, the Department of Education spun the debt off to cut throat debt recovery institutions with exorbitant interest fees and low payment schedules that amount to life-time servitude. The most fraudulent of these programs have already been prosecuted and closed across the country. Efforts to provide some level of loan forgiveness to the rest of those most maligned is, in part, in recognition that the Federal Government including Congress were integral in creating this failed system.

Do service personnel service deserve some level of pay increase? Probably, imho, having been there as a junior serviceman, and NOT by choice.. The issue appears to be what is a realistic level that can be afforded.

Is some level of student loan forgiveness warranted? Yes, imho, having had to fight for a "mentally challenged" ward who should never have been recruited into a bogus training program by a now closed predatory for-profit training program with promises of guaranteed employment that was never going to happen.

Comparing the two situations is an apple and oranges argument.

carpediem · 61-69, M

@dancingtongue I don't agree it's apples and oranges. They're both fruit. Meaning its a disgrace, imho, that this administration is buying votes by "forgiving" student loans. Those loans were also voluntary. No one drafted these kids into going to college. PAY YOUR DEBTS! That's how you learn about the world. If they think they were defrauded, take it up through the courts. That's how grown ups handle these issues. Make a commitment, and follow through. The SCOTUS actually struck the idea down, yet Biden does it anyway. It's a disgrace.

I agree with your commentary regarding training skills, voluntary service, etc. But it's disgusting that our military barely scrapes by while privileged kids are skipping along not meeting the obligations they committed to. It's grown up time. Pay up. I did, my kids did, and so did everyone else before them. This is about buying votes. Freaking criminals at 1600

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dancingtongue · 80-89, M

@NativePortlander1970 And most, if it is anything like my time in the military, chose to get married while still on active duty, chose to take their families with them when posted elsewhere, opted to live off base, and got an additional housing assistance stipend while still having access to all the other benefits mentioned in my first post. Which is not to negate what you are saying, or the fact they deserve a pay increase of some level (as does the vast majority of the taxpayers paying their salaries). Just providing a little additional perspective beyond the rhetoric.

NativePortlander1970

@dancingtongue This is not rhetoric

dancingtongue · 80-89, M

@NativePortlander1970 Once again, I do not question the need. I suspect a lot of those of those buried in student debt as the interest rates on what they owe keep ballooning, the penalties keep mounting, and their wages have been garnished because the promised jobs never came will be found on those same subsistence assistant roles.

NativePortlander1970

@dancingtongue Tough shit, they should have taken viable majors that would have led to real careers making real money, you sign a contract, honor it, be an adult and pay it off yourself.

DogMan · 61-69, M

@dancingtongue I see your point, but I think you know that most people that go into
the military, like myself, come from a lower income family, that may not be able to send
their kids to college. College kids, by and large, come from more affluent families.

I believe it sends the wrong message, when you pay off loans, that people agree
to pay for themselves, while allowing military people to live in poverty.

NativePortlander1970

@DogMan Exactly

dancingtongue · 80-89, M

@DogMan Thank you for a reasonable response. I see your point as well. Although I do volunteer work supporting an organization that tries to provide "affordable" room & board to college students at my alma mater who couldn't otherwise afford to go to a four college -- just as it did for me and thousands of other poor kids back in my day -- and you might be surprised by the number of college students who don't come from wealthy families. But as far as generalizations go, I think you are right.

Both are issues that need to be addressed. My concern is that pitting one against the other serves no purpose other than to feed the bumpersticker crowd. And as I understand it, neither Biden nor the Senate have vetoed a pay raise for the military -- only the extreme 19% hike that the House passed just to create a political issue. And as I understand it, the student loan program -- a chaotic mess that Congress created for the benefit of the financial institutions -- is not universal, but is an attempt to help those in death spiral debt that will never allow them to be productive taxpayers (to be absolutely crass), or were lied to by predators, and recipients will have some level of economic need to qualify to leave out the wealthy.

DogMan · 61-69, M

@dancingtongue Agreed, Although I believe paying off someone's personal debt, with
tax payer money, is wrong. Yes, I know we bailed out big business, but I was against that
also.

You watch, in the near future, people will be demanding that the tax payers,
pay off ALL student debt.

It will be paid by two different people, the people that paid off their own student debt,
and the people that did not go to college.

Now that it has started, It will never stop. After all, it won't be fair for others that
went to college. People will start go into college, expecting it to be paid by others.

We both know human nature.