Do you believe in God?

@Tracos Like Santa

@Bumbles @Tracos
1 Corinthians 2:14

@Pfuzylogic I would expect nothing less from the Bible. 🙂

@Bumbles
Science trips over itself when it sticks with 20th century ideas. What you learned in school was them guessing without real evidence, starting with big banging as the start of the universe. 😌

@Pfuzylogic The evidence strongly suggests "The Big Bang," but if you believe in creationism, that's certainly your right.

@Bumbles Big Bang shows that the Universe had a beginning. Some One or Thing had to cause it to be.

@Bumbles
Don’t feel too free to state things for me. I am simply sharing examples where persons will take advantage of the “authority” of science to pursue their ambitions. First Hawking, obviously you know the person that took Hawking’s perch and it isn’t Penrose.
I’ll give you a hint, it is the scientist leading string theory.

@hippyjoe1955 Ahh, yes, cause and effect without a universe. We have ape brains plus a few thousand years, dude. “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy” (Hamlet, 1.5. 165–66).

@Bumbles Absolutely. We can not image any Being being beyond time.

@Bumbles
Surely you aren’t using Shakespeare as a response for creation. You might as well bring in Dawkins to bring in his two bits

@Pfuzylogic I said "if" and do not assume. You brought up the big bang. I suppose I don't understand your point then.

@Pfuzylogic I'm using Shakespeare because the quote is applicable.

@Bumbles That must be a last resort when you argue and believe in science yet lack the depth needed to defend your position.

@Bumbles The point of the big bang is that there was a start to the universe. It is not eternal Thus it is valid to ask, what existed before the universe? Why did the universe form? How did the universe form into such well balanced constants. How did the extremely complex thing called life come into existence. The facts are that we don't know and can't explain the universe as a result of a causeless causation.

@hippyjoe1955 Yes, these are valid questions, and I posit the answers may be very strange and hard to understand because our brains are designed for "common sense" and survival. Applying the concepts of cause and effect make a lot of sense in a Newtonian paradigm. How many people can really understand quantum theory? Imagine an answer 10 times as complex. Well, that's a paradox, of course. A chimp can't do math -- maybe it can conceive of a "few." By analogy, why do we think humans can understand all that is knowable? We can't. And just because we have no idea what came "before" the Big Bang or what "caused" it, doesn't mean the answer doesn't exist and is not metaphysical.

@Pfuzylogic I've done you no harm, brother. I simply don't follow your point.

@Bumbles Obviously you don't follow what I posted. That does not let us get away with stupidity though. Cause and effect are the norms we know. We know how to start a fire by cause and effect. Likewise we know how to put out a fire based on cause and effect. We also know that something does not come from nothing for no reason.

@hippyjoe1955 There may be a reason, but not one easily understood or even potentially understood. Or, the notion of time and space, absent a big bag which created both, may prevent such a reason at all.

@Bumbles So you honestly think that something came from nothing for no reason?

@Bumbles
I am simply stating that the Big Bang was given very specifics in theory according to their “evidence at the time”. When real observation is made regarding to the elements in the stars and the brightness of the stars then one would suspect that instead of science being taught it is the fiction of science and Hawking never recanted when he knew that there was evidence challenging his position.

@hippyjoe1955 I think the reason may be incomprehensible, or the larger "system" at work can't be thought of as having a beginning.

@Bumbles
I agree with your last.
I have confidence in actual observations made and included as evidence however in K-12 it has not been taught that way. Big bang has been taught as truth instead of as a Theory/hypothesis of which it actually is.

@Pfuzylogic I can't speak to Hawking or his malfeasance, to be honest. I don't think science is a fiction, however. I will grant you The Big Bang is technically a theory because it cannot be observed or reproduced.

@Bumbles So lets answer the question - Where does information come from? We both know that each living cell on earth contains information. The information is extremely complex so much so that we can't even understand how it works. So where does information like that come from? Any one who has thought about it realises that information only comes from intelligence. So what is eternal and has intelligence?

@hippyjoe1955 I don't agree information only comes from intelligence. I'm an atheist.