Do you believe in God?

@hippyjoe1955 Could you provide any examples of this evidence?

@Thodsis if you understand design and how things come to be and even the compromised a designer needs to make there is no doubt that the universe was designed to an extremely fine tolerance. Simply impossible to be the result of an accident.

@hippyjoe1955 That's the Argument From Design.

It doesn't provide evidence for a god.

To sum it up - We understand that people can create complicated things that function rather well.

The universe seems to be a complicated thing that functions rather well.

We didn't create the universe.

Therefore something similar to us created the universe.

It's a reasonable position to take.

But there is no evidence for gods being real things.

@Thodsis Yeah actually it does provide a lot of evidence for there to be a designer. Either the universe and all that is in it and all its finely tuned constants along with the complexity of life forms all say Designer not accident.

@hippyjoe1955 This designer will presumably be complicated and finely tuned enough to create a universe.

Who or what designed the designer?

And who or what designed the designer of the designer?

And so on....

I'd suggest that the argument from design is one of many that have been created by complicated beings who wish for some certainty amidst the uncertainty of existence.

Just a thought. ;)

@Thodsis There has to be Something that is eternal. Causeless Cause as it were. We know the universe is not eternal and therefore needs a Cause/Creator.

@hippyjoe1955 There may well be a causeless cause.

It's a difficult thing to imagine.

And even more difficult to test.

What are your thoughts on why a thing with no beginning and no end is necessary as an explanation for what (to use an irritating phrase) 'is what it is'?

@Thodsis No there can not be a causeless causation. Everything that is in the universe is here because there is a cause. If we try to play ignorant we simply destroy all our science. We can never show that a vaccine prevents an illness or that a dropped rock will fall.

@hippyjoe1955 I think you might have disagreed with yourself.

See above...

In terms of causation though, the thoughts of the amusingly irreglious chap called David Hume are worth reading about.

His example of billiard balls is a bit mind-blowing. :)

@Thodsis Are you joking? Billiard balls disprove God? Too FUNNY!!!!

@hippyjoe1955 He questioned our idea of causation.

It's an idea that's really worth thinking about.

One thing happens and then another thing happens.

We then invent a relationship between the two events that we share with each other.

Perhaps religion is a load of old balls...


PS. I'd really recommend David Hume. He was apparently a lovely man.

@Thodsis So the billiard balls are simply the result of an accident? Some uncaused material that just suddenly materialise for no know reason simply formed billiard balls? Really is that the best you can come up with? Here is an interesting little factoid: Darwin thought a cell was simply a bag of 'protoplasm'. With today's technology we now know that it is not a bag of protoplasm and in fact is becoming ever more complex. As noted organic chemist James Tour notes, the longer we look at the technology inside a cell the more complex we find them to be.

@hippyjoe1955 I'd recommend reading the first twenty-ish paragraphs about David Hume on Wikipedia.

We've got a bit off topic though.

I'd like to ask another question.

If a god were shown to be real then what should we do about it?

It would be a scary situation. :)

@Thodsis It is a scary situation. God created you for a purpose and foolish you deny not only your purpose but to deny the One who Created you. The Bible says that "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

@hippyjoe1955 I'll avoid the hands of the living god.

Is it alright to have a cuddle from the dead gods?

Some of the old Egyptian ones looked rather charming. :)

@Thodsis The Egyptian gods were not Gods they were the creation of man.

@hippyjoe1955 Any suggestions on how we can work out which gods are real and which ones are just 'fake news'?

@Thodsis Well if you talk to them and wait for an answer it becomes very evident very soon.

@hippyjoe1955 Is this something that you have tried doing?

Which ones did you call and what were the answers?

@Thodsis I discovered that there was more to life than a bunch of random atoms bumping into each other and so began my spiritual quest. I tried Buddhism but that was empty so I tried Islam which was equally void. One day I was walking across a field on the family farm. I had been driving a tractor all day and now it was time to shut it down for the night. It was warm out and the sun was sinking to the horizon in the West. A gentle south breeze was keeping the mosquitoes at bay. I felt some mental discomfort over what I do not know but as I walked I felt an urge to do something I had never thought of before. I spotted a small white rock with pale green lichens growing on it peeking out of the native prairie wool. For some unknown reason I knelt by that rock and asked for forgiveness from God the Father and Jesus His Son. The words had barely cleared my lips before I felt an overwhelming 'lightening of my soul". I can not explain it and I can not describe it but in that minute I was shown that God the Father and God the Son truly existed. After a bit of communing with God I got to my feet and it felt like I had the feet of a deer. I ran all the way to the house where my wife and son were waiting for me. We started to go to church and a few years later I was sitting in the pew when the pastor walked out to deliver his sermon. He looked around at the congregation and threw his notes on the floor. He said he had planned on delivering a sermon but as he neared the lectern the LORD gave him a new sermon to preach. The sermon was a call for me to enter the ministry. Over the years I have witnessed many many miracles that confirm that Jesus is the Lord and I am His child. I was asked to teach a class and wound up teaching a class of Bible College professors for 19 weeks. During the course of those lectures everyone of the professors came up to me and said that they had learned something from what I had said. I preached a sermon one day and as my wife and I relaxed that afternoon a lady phoned me. She was in tears. She explained that something I had said was so prophetic to her that she could not stop crying tears of joy. I let her sob and laugh for awhile as I thought to myself, "I have no idea what I even said" Yes God the Father Jesus the Son and God the Spirit is very real and very much alive. You need to do what I did. Ask Him to forgive you.