Billy Graham Quote
There is a language in nature that speaks of the existence of God. It is the language of order, beauty, perfection, and intelligence.
Billy Graham
Billy Graham
56-60, M
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TheWildEcho · 56-60, M
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LordShadowfire · 100+, M
@Dshhh https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjw29ymBhAKEiwAHJbJ8gP2E2RCj-FYxWMbFZvZ_DftActhry1C8qJBPhfPzmbE9cwoPci4sxoC38gQAvD_BwE
LeopoldBloom · M
Yes, the old Argument from Order. It is possible to have "order, beauty, perfection, and intelligence" without a divine creator. But if you accept Graham's argument, then God himself must have his own even greater creator, and so on ad infinitum. Surely such an amazing being as God, capable of creating such a wonderful universe, could not have come from nothing. He clearly must have an even greater creator of his own. In fact, the Gnostic Christians believed this - that the God of the Bible was an evil demiurge named Yaldabaoth, who had forgotten his own creator, so the goal of Gnosticism was to attain union with the greater creator rather than the lesser one.
originnone · 61-69, M
@LeopoldBloom I thought this same thing after reading the first chapter of Mere Christianity by CS Lewis....you know, the Narnia dude. He wrote a couple of great christian fiction novels if you're ever interested (The Screwtape Letters and The Great Divorce), but I can't buy the idea that the so called beautiful things of life are evidence of a a god....There is evidence...to me, not enough....
LeopoldBloom · M
@originnone I read Mere Christianity, and while I was impressed with Lewis' skill in writing, as a philosopher, he's laughable. "Lewis' Trilemma" misses two important alternatives - since Jesus never wrote down a word himself, it's possible that the people who claim to have recorded his words were either insane or lying. So it's a "quintilemma." Lewis displays confirmation bias in his assumption that the Gospels are automatically accurate.
He also exemplifies the typical British arrogance of his generation by dismissing the airman who describes feeling closest to God in nature.
I did read the first book of the Narnia series as an adult, and didn't appreciate how it shoves symbolic Christianity down the reader's throat. Tolkien was a devout Catholic, but takes great care to avoid making his legendarium an advertisement for Catholicism.
He also exemplifies the typical British arrogance of his generation by dismissing the airman who describes feeling closest to God in nature.
I did read the first book of the Narnia series as an adult, and didn't appreciate how it shoves symbolic Christianity down the reader's throat. Tolkien was a devout Catholic, but takes great care to avoid making his legendarium an advertisement for Catholicism.
Carazaa · F
@LordShadowfire I'll block you so you can avoid my comments, fantastic! Have a great day!
Axeroberts · 56-60, M
@Dshhh random because this universe was created with the properties to be self sustaining.
Gloomy · F
No
Concepts like beauty, order and "perfection" are human ones that we ascribe to nature via our perception. The very idea of a creator is a human one born in a time of little understanding
Concepts like beauty, order and "perfection" are human ones that we ascribe to nature via our perception. The very idea of a creator is a human one born in a time of little understanding
Axeroberts · 56-60, M
@originnone wise words
basilfawlty89 · 31-35, M
LordShadowfire · 100+, M
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Gloomy · F
@Axeroberts Your line of thought aligns though
Axeroberts · 56-60, M
@Gloomy because you want it to
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LordShadowfire · 100+, M
I feel you should know, Carazaa the baby hater did in fact block me after I took offense to the comment that babies deserve to get cancer. But Emosaur is right. If you only delete their comments, and leave the comment from Carazaa, then you are taking sides in the debate, and you have taken the objectively evil side.
Axeroberts · 56-60, M
@LordShadowfire no profanity like that please. That's all it is. I looked through but didn't see her swearing. Did I miss it?
LordShadowfire · 100+, M
@Axeroberts No, you didn't miss any profanity from her, but come on. She literally said that babies deserve cancer. Do you agree?
LordShadowfire · 100+, M
What's the matter, @TheWildEcho? You don't like the fact that @Carazaa blames babies for getting cancer? Or you don't like the fact that I pointed it out?
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