You have to admit there is an intelligent force in this universe

@DocSavage not sure what you mean. But we humans make the discoveries that already exist

@Axeroberts
We humans are hardwired to look for patterns, even when they’re not actually there.

@DocSavage good thing because those patterns are there 👍 If they weren't there how could we find them 🤣

@Axeroberts
Care to give an example or two ? Something beyond the norm, that shows intent.
[media=https://youtu.be/v8mJr4c66bs]

@DocSavage you make me laugh. try gravity. same formula all through the universe. imagine that

@Axeroberts
And what about it seems designed, as opposed to be being a natural phenomenon or force ?

@DocSavage there is still a pattern. predictable. repeatable and caclulatable. perfect science

@Axeroberts
The pattern is the label we humans put on a natural occurrence. It’s not a sign of intelligent design. Physics defines the phenomena, so that it can be described in a coherent manner. It intelligence is in the eye of the beholder.
I’ve gone up against flat earthers who claim gravity doesn’t exist, and the reason things fall down, is because the earth is a flat disc, constantly moving up. Does that make any sense ?

@DocSavage you can't say it's not intelligent design. but there is an intelligent part. and way beyond what we know

@Axeroberts
[quote] you can't say it's not intelligent design[/quote]
Yes I can. Until someone comes up with credible evidence of some being capable of actually creating something on a universal scale as you suggest, it is perfectly reasonable. As stated before, our knowledge and understanding of an infinite universe is extremely limited. You assume a creator, based on the human condition. We can create and build , therefore someone else must have done the same, with powers and abilities beyond our imagination. And they do it for reasons of which we can’t comprehend, but we assume has some practical purpose.
Why make that assumption ? People are impatient. You want a quick , simple answer to something that will take centuries to answer if ever.

@DocSavage can't be ruled out. but i am talking about the intelligent connection with matter. on so many levels. It is incredible

@Axeroberts
and highly improbable . Do you have and concept of what it would take to do it, even on some kind of mechanical level ?
If you’re suggesting supernatural powers, then it goes against any rational evolutionary theory. There is just no reason for a living creature to develop that kind of power in a natural universe.
You’re going to come up with a lot more compelling arguments for that . And I don’t see how you can do it without resorting to the usual logical fallacies that every religion has, and fails with.

@DocSavage you come up with so many assumptions. do you know anything about physics? F=ma. E=mc^2

@Axeroberts
My “assumptions” are based on the natural, not the supernatural.

@DocSavage mine are science. Those two formulas

@Axeroberts
I repeat. Where do you see intelligent design in the science of gravity ?
The two formulas are the afore mentioned labels , intelligent humans worked them out. That’s what scientists do.

@DocSavage there is no sense continuing.

@Axeroberts
Why not ? You seem to think a supernatural agent is clearly indicated. All I’m asking is what separates it from the norm.

@DocSavage i do not believe in that type of Creator but I am not even talking about that. Humans have sent probes all over the solar system and landed on other planets using these kinds of mathematical formulas. It's real. It take intelligence to discover it. therefore there is an intelligence about our universe.

@Axeroberts
And as I stated. That intelligence is us