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The devil AKA Satan.

Do you believe in the devil?

Many fundamentalist Christians would obviously say "yes" with the sage and knowing comment that the greatest trick of the devil is to convince us that he doesn't exist.

Myself, I think his greatest trick is to convince us that he he does.....which doesn't really make sense I know, but is rather funny when you think about it.

The Dharma, Buddhism, does have its own version of the "lord of darkness", Mara. Mara often acts as someone who would seek to convince us that "enlightenment/salvation" can never be ours.

Once, on a Buddhist forum, another poster spoke of his own outlook. He only believed in bodhisattvas, surrounding us, "enlightenment beings" who have renounced the joys of nirvana in order to share our sufferings, making them their own, aiding and supporting. Angels in a sense I suppose. I saw his outlook as life giving. I still do.

I don't think we need believe in fairies to reap the benefits. A "bodhisattva" can be in the smile of a child, an act of a stranger. Tangible. Real. Lifegiving.

No poll here I'm not interested in any vote. Truth is not democratic.

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Tariki

I'm now in Costa's with a cappuccino (extra hot, which makes it last longer, me being a cheapskate at heart) and I find the place therapeutic. I get the impression that many here on the forum are put off by a wall of text. Busy lives, always something to do next that cannot wait. So a soundbite will do.

"How r u"?

"Great" (not really, feeling shit actually, on the brink of suicide but hey, you don't [i]really[/i] wanna know)

That's the way it seems to go. Fortunately I am retired and have time to think - not always the best policy I admit given the thoughts that can come. But often rewarding. Contemplation. Reflection. Who am I? and suchlike. Which reminds me of Neddy Seagoon being asked what he was doing down in the coal cellar. "Well, everybody gotta be somewhere!" he said. Dear old Spike Milligan, who had his own mental health problems. Who am I, where am I. What do I do next? as Spike would ask at the end of the sketch.

Picking up on my opening post, of smiles and the kind acts of strangers, I think that the full beauty of this world is open to the very "lowest" - a "little child shall lead them" as the Good Book says; and as G K Chesterton once said, "great things are seen from the valleys, only small things from the heights". The instinctive love of a mother for her child can trump all the books on ethics. This is not sentimentality. It, at least for me, is ingrained into the fabric of reality. Once, some time ago now, not long after my own mother died of dementia, I was suffering from a couple of years of depression. It was Christmas Eve and I had been running around the town buying the last things for Christmas. I knew I needed a little sketch pad for my daughter, then six, which I had promised to get. But my pockets were empty and those were the days when Credit Cards were quite new, and to pay with one involved machines, signatures, and "tut tuts" in the queue behind you. I picked up a pad and lined up in the long queue and looked with trepidation at the very harassed looking young lady who was serving. Eventually it was my turn......."Sorry, I have no cash left, can I use my credit card?" If that young girl had snatched the pad and looked at me with enmity, in the state I was in then, who knows? How deep can depression go? Where does any road end? But no. She took the pad and smiled, a beautiful smile, and said "I think we are all out of cash now". Even now, thinking back, it almost reduces me to tears - of gratitude. I have always remembered that smile. Which cost nothing yet was worth everything.

Anyway, I've waffled on enough. My apologies for the wall of text. I hope no one finds it too off putting.

StarLily · 51-55, F

@Tariki I enjoyed reading this "wall of text".

The young lady at the register - proof that the simplest of things... gentleness and kindness... can ease a troubled heart.

Thanks for sharing this story. It made me smile.

Tariki

@StarLily Thank you. I try my best. I truly find waffling away therapeutic. I sit down in Costa's and it just comes pouring out. On various forums I just call them "Memos from the Pure Land"......but that is simply my whimsical sense of humour.

Adstar · 56-60, M

You don't have to be a ""fundamentalist'' Christian to believe satan exists.. You just have to be a standard Christian.. Using the term "fundamentalist" is simply a form of denigration.. Making out that people who believe satan exists are bad people.. Once you read that first sentence you know what agenda Tariki is pushing..

Yes truth is not democratic.. satan is real just as God is real and in the end satan will be cast into the eternal lake of fire along with all who have joined him is his rebellion against God..

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Tariki

@Adstar No, that is YOUR judgement. The joke was on you, not the Living Word.

Obviously you can block me if you wish.

Thank you.

Tariki

@Adstar You see mate, Universalism is not soft soap, the soft option. Knowing we are all "one", that [i]all[/i] are chosen, that no one will be excluded, is a very demanding thing to trust and have faith in. To live up to it with the mind/heart, in word and deed. I often fall short.

Judge it as "pomposity" and "lecturing' if you so wish. But I cannot simply block anyone and think the job is done.

All the best. Truly.

Thank you.

Entwistle · 56-60, M

@Adstar They wont spend eternity there or they would be there now.

Islamreligion · F

Satan is a figure in Islam too and shown as an enemy :
Al-Baqarah - Verse 168
{…and do not follow Satan’s footsteps. He is truly your sworn enemy.)
if you don’t believe in the existence of Satan you cannot possibly be a Muslim since by doing so you are denying part of Gods creation. it is like being a Buddhist and denying the existence of Buddha or some main figure in it.

In Islam , Satan and the devils
Do try to deceive people
However we believe a person makes the final decision and has their own choice and will to do bad/good.

What interesting enough
Is this verse in the Quran
Al-An'am - Verse 112

{And so We have made for every prophet enemies—devilish humans and jinn—whispering to one another with elegant words of deception. Had it been your Lord’s Will, they would not have done such a thing. So leave them and their deceit}

The reason I find it interesting is how God refers to some “humans” as devilish
Because sadly some humans by their evil traits fit the definition of a devil maybe even worse than a devil.

Have a good day 🍀

Tariki

@Islamreligion As a Buddhist I can do without Siddhārtha Gautama, the historical Buddha. Denying his existence is in a sense irrelevant. It is the Dharma that cannot be denied. Truth.

Thank you.

Islamreligion · F

@Tariki exactly you are making it very simple!

Dharma is a “doctrine “
And you believe in it firmly as you said with No “denying”
Christians and Muslims are no different; they have their own doctrine /set of beliefs and
That includes believing in the existence of a creature called Satan. (and similarly many other religions have their own doctrine that includes specific beliefs and ideas )

In Islam we believe that Satan is but a creature of God who has free will
Ane decided the path of evil just like some humans can and do choose that path.

For example you have a man and he becomes a leader of a violent criminal gang (aka Satan) and starts influencing people and asking them to join his gang (aka humans )
However those who join do so willingly by their own “will “ and “choice”
After fully knowing and being warned.

I don’t see what Is confusing about the Islamic belief on Satan.
God clearly identified him and warned us about him , sent prophets throughout with scripture and at the end each person has their own will and will face the consequences of their “own” actions accordingly.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

If anyone is curious about Hell then go to Norway for a firsthand experience = [b][i]Hell, Norway[/i][/b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Norway

Hell also exists in Michigan = [b][i]Hell, Michigan[/i][/b]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Michigan

There's another Hell in the Netherlands = https://mapcarta.com/17854614

The Cayman Islands is a nice place to go to hell = [b][i]Hell, Grand Cayman[/i][/b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_Grand_Cayman

The hell in California is just a ghost of what it once was =
[b][i]Hell, California[/i][/b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell,_California

Kentucky is certain that it has a piece of hell = https://www.roadonmap.com/us/where-is/Hell_for_Certain,kentucky

And we know that all of Texas is hell.

Graylight · 51-55, F

I believe hell is wandering away from the best path for one's soul. What we call the devil is simply the negativity that man is capable of in his own mind. If we can use the positive energy of the universe to manifest beneficial things, we can follow the negative energy down into self-recrimination, lack of confidence, lies others have whispered to us.

A devil implies judgment, which implies a punitive concept of eternity and God. I think that's a limitation of man's mind. I believe the Universe only wants us to rejoice, experience, learn and add to the creative cycle of transformation; when we follow that current free of flailing arms and shouted commands, we find it takes us just where we need to be. When we don't, we end up clinging to flotsam and blaming others for our fears. We call the latter the devil, but it's odd how often he sounds just like our own voice.

markansas

THIS WAS A INTERESTING POST TO READ . thanks and buddha was not a god its a way of life.. just my thought . on that .

Tariki

@markansas Yes, correct. A "way".

Thank you

markansas

@Tariki its helping me with my anger managment and a way to live.[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-079YIasck]
is this is post in the wrong area . forgive me just eager to join enjoy

Tariki

@markansas Yes, I have problems with where to post anything. When I am in a forgiving mood I tell myself I have a holistic mind, then sometimes I think it's just a dustbin.....😀

But hey! Join in. Keep working on the anger management.

canusernamebemyusername · M

People have never went crazy over stuff they didn't believe in. Only stuff they thought was real. So I get what you're saying.
I have also heard the saying that the devil wrote the Bible to trick people into believing in him.

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@canusernamebemyusername The Bible as an unified book was written in the late 680s-early 690s A.D. by a committee of story tellers, writers, and artists based in England. They produced three master copies in Latin, each weighing about 75 pounds. One copy still exists. There is no earlier complete legitimate Bible of any kind on this planet.

There were bits and pieces of ragged scrolls floating around but they were not the Bible, with all of the stories in them.

Uthman had formed a committee around 640 A.D. to write the Koran. Since the Christians didn't have their fairy tale in a book they had to come up with one as a propaganda tool. As the Muslims were storming around the Mediterranean they needed a safe place to produce their book so they decided on England. They raised a couple thousand cows for the vellum to write on and they assembled the committee and got busy. That is why the stories flow seamlessly from one to another in a linear manner. They were all written at the same time.

Tariki

@Diotrephes Ha ha! Talk about "fairy tales". Did we all live happily ever after?

😀

Diotrephes · 70-79, M

@Tariki As it says in 1 Timothy 4:7 (TLB) = "Don’t waste time arguing over foolish ideas and silly myths and legends. Spend your time and energy in the exercise of keeping spiritually fit."

What are the biblical stories except silly myths and legends?

Tariki

The trend is being set here......😀

"I'm a true believer, Satan is real, and those who deny it are bound for the lake of fire"

🤪

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Tariki

@canusernamebemyusername Just to add, I have got a Pure Land Buddhist thread going, but to be honest I hesitate to continue with it as it will almost inevitably attract a host of "born again" believers seeking to "testify"and justify themselves......and sadly, I just can't stomach much more of the nonsense. Sorry.

canusernamebemyusername · M

@Tariki Yeah I understand where you are coming from. I'm atheist but still consider myself to have a spiritual view of things. And I like your stuff so far. Some of it is complicated to me but I still like it.

Tariki

@canusernamebemyusername Thank you. Sadly, that what I post is "complicated" is a fairly common observation. Other descriptions are "mumbo jumbo"....😀

All I experience is a simple trust in Reality. Obviously I have difficulty in expressing this.