What is Feminism

@SW-User so what opportunities do you not get that only men do? Women are already equal to men most places in the world and the gender pay gap has been debunked hundreds of times already.. So what opportunities and rights do women not have that men do now? Im not including middle eastern women in this, because they actually are treated less than men and have a lot to fight for

@Torsten I agree in the western world for the most part women have become equals BECAUSE of feminism! There are still values and attitudes that put women as inferior to men, but feminism has changed the world for women

@Torsten and why do you think those advantages happened ?

Magic ?

Just coz some radical women who call themselves feminist do stupid fucked up shit ....it doesn't mean feminism is bad .
Many men have also found freedom because of feminism - it's now not a stigma to be a stay at home dad, or choose nursing as a career, or wanna be a seamstress.

Would it be fair of me to hate all Muslims because of people who are extremists and Muslim and use the religion badly ?
Should I blame all Muslims for their actions ?

No...that just creates pointless hate .
And it's unfair .

Feminism is a movement intended to create [b]equal opportunities
[/b]regardless of gender ....and also regardless of colour and religion .

It IS however, badly named .

It's not about 'beating men at their own game' or trying to squash them.

It's about allowing all people the freedoms to pursue a life they feel will fullfil them . To get employment in areas they enjoy or have the aptitude for .

But ...as with all good ideas and movements - there are extremists who go and fucking wreck it for everybody .

@SW-User so you cant say any opportunities or rights men have that women dont have now?

@OogieBoogie I am not against real feminism. I am all for men and women having equal rights as one another.
Feminism now though again is more about special rights to women at the expense of men and I know so many feminists claim that feminism is about equal rights for all, yet you never see feminists speak up for mens rights.
With male suicide being at such a high percentage it is now, you dont see any places men can go for help with mental health, or places men can go who have been victims of domestic abuse..
Women have all said things (as they should).. Women are succeeding much more in education compared to men now, so where is help for men in that situation?
instead of helping men and women better succeed and strive, its always just about telling the world how oppressed women are and how great men have it, and that is what i can not stand about feminism.

But equal righst for all, I support very much. i just would not call that feminism because feminism is more about helping women and ignoring men

@Torsten I really can’t be arsed to engage with you because you seldom listen to reason anyway but in the UK around 79% of companies pay a higher average salary to men. England’s women’s football team won the euros which the men’s team did not, yet their salaries are not even comparable

@Torsten Femism I agree is very messed up today .
In Aus we have 'Beyond Blue' which is specifically set up for men's mental health and social support needs.

But the whole system is imbalanced.

This is going to sound cruel, and I don't mean it to be ..but...
...society as it was and sometimes still is structured and socially expected to be, is very hard on men .
It was a male dominated society that made such expectations on men - confined them to their roles .
And it worked while they had their rights and their advantages and control
But it came at the expense of women.

What upset that boat was when women got these rights too.
It was way easier for us to accept our freedoms and the price they came with, than for men to give up the advantage .

We bought with us our tender side as we developed a harder side .
Men were never socially allowed that option :
Be tough or drown .
And men are still facing that - from other men !

As to education, ironically, school is structured way better to females than males ...we develope our cognitive skills earlier than boys, and the education system STILL hasn't restructured in ANY way to account or support this developmental difference .

Which is a HUGE oversight .

It's like feminism has lost it's way .
It's forgotten what it was for .

The new world is angry ....everyone is fighting for themselves rather than fighting for our future.

It does shit me to tears that the feminists that speak up the most are the fucked up ones .
Most of us are just working and supporting our partners the best way we can.

I agree not enough has been done for men to let them be real people . To be socially accepted as whole people with feelings and needs and vulnarablities .

It's like it's all been focused on physical stuff like money and jobs and legal shit ....but not on the more softer social sides like emotions and care and fatherhood and such .

The whole world seems harsher than it should be .

I do feel there is modern element to feminism that's about 'becoming like men' to succeed rather than achieving balance .

And it hasn't helped .
All it's done is make some women become ruthless and aggressive .

Which is NOT what the goal was 😞

@OogieBoogie I agree with a lot of what you said.
What i would dispute though is where you said
[quote]And men are still facing that - from other men[/quote]
men face that from women also. just saying.

Anyway im not here to go on about mens rights and all that. All i am saying is there is a bi imbalance here when it comes to feminism and equal rights for all and yeah the radical feminists have painted a incredibly bad look on feminism today but even taking that out, when feminisim is only really about helping women and ignoring men, you cant blame men for wanting nothing to do with feminism, especially when told how great men allegedly have it with everything, when truth be told that so many men are struggling in so many ways today.

I will lastly say again that i am all for equal rights for men and women. No special treatment at the expense of either but real equal treatment

@Torsten oh same here . I believe in best person for the job. Job has set pay and that's it.

I also think that unpaid jobs like being a carer for your children [b]should [/b] come with some sort of pay so families can be families .

It's this fucking gender issue that screws everything up.

If people stopped talking about men this , and women that, and saw us all as people, THAT is when equality would truly kick in .

@OogieBoogie i 100% agree with you on all of that

@OogieBoogie so, for you, it's not enough that the man works all day to pay for house, car, put food on table, etc. but you expect him to pay you a salary for being a homemaker too? 🤔

@wildbill83 No, that's not what I said at all .

I said that being a stay at home carer for ones children should be some sort of paid work. (And I didnt use any particula gender to define who the carer was - it could be the man )

I think it should be funded by the government in some way .
Not a full paid job, but at last a subsidy of some sort - to relieve some pressure off the wage eamer.

I mean people aren't having kids anymore as it's too expensive .

And it IS expensive .
And the one who stays home can lose their career to do it ....never to be able.to return it .

Dont put words into my mouth that I didn't say .
Don't assume what I didn't mean.

And don't accuse me of your own evidently biased thoughts .

@SW-User there is a reason men are paid more than women in pro sports leagues. Its because men bring in the much higher ratings and attendance.
If women had those ratings and attendance, they would be paid equally but they dont
And again the pay gap thing had been debunked countless times already.

you say you cant be arsed to engage with me but thats really because you have nothing credible to answer with

@Torsten the pay gap has not been debunked and in 2023 is still very much an issue in the UK…but again you won’t accept that because it goes against your rhetoric so there is zero point

@SW-User yes it has. Im not going to just accept you at saying things that are factually incorrect.
It is illegal for a woman to be paid less than a man if they have the exact same job position and work the exact same hours. Try and show me any case that a women did just that and was paid less than the man with the same position and hours. I will wait

@Torsten but favouring men for higher paying jobs and giving more opportunities for men to achieve more is still an issue

@SW-User or crazy thought here, the job went to the more qualified person and gender played no part in it.
Im still waiting for you to show me a case of a women being paid less than a man while having the same position and hours. Show me the gender pay gay is actually real and hasnt been debunked countless times already

@Torsten I’m getting ready to go spend the day with my family at a Christmas market so not gonna waste any more time with a random person on the internet…have a good life

@SW-User ok so in other words, you cant back up your claims. Got it, enjoy the Christmas market with your family