What Is Atheism

@Pikachu [quote]I don't think you've given a realistic description of what constitutes a god.
A god necessarily has consciousness and agency. It is a being, not an object.[/quote]

That isn't accurate. But for the sake of argument tell me what you base this constitution on. The best example to test your hypothesis would be the god of Luck. How is that god conscious?

[quote]Or rather it is the belief that the object of worship possesses those qualities.[/quote]

So gods are exclusively a product of the imagination and can't possibly exist in a literal sense. That isn't accurate.

[quote]So no, your stomach cannot be a god, nor money, nor sex. Those are vices that one may prioritize in their life but they are not worshiped the way we worship a being, human or god.[/quote]

Three questions; 1. Why can't those things be a god and 2. If they are worshiped wouldn't that constitute divinity and 3. Can't a human be a god?

[quote]Yes, Zeus is a god whether you believe in him or not. That is not to say that he is real but that, just like the god of the bible, he is a character imagined to possess the qualities of godhood and worshiped accordingly.

So i don't think you've made a very compelling case that atheism is nonsensical. Only when you dilute and distort the definition of "god" past any realistic meaning can you make that argument.[/quote]

I don't think that is an accurate criticism and I certainly don't think it a fair or honest one.

You said that I didn't give a realistic description of what constitutes a god. If you base that criticism on a limited description that really only would apply to the supernatural, which you can't test, then how would you explain that the dictionary descriptions of gods include object and literal mortal persons who undoubtedly exist?

@Pikachu [quote]What qualifies luck as a god?[/quote]

Only one thing qualifies anything as a god. Worship.

[quote]i was expressing my position that people only imagine them to exist in a literal sense.[/quote]

Well. I don't see how that changes anything, but it isn't necessarily true anyway. A person's god can be a literal person, so they don't have to imagine that person exists. A god doesn't have to be supernatural. How do I know? The dictionary, encyclopedia, Bible, and the history of gods. All you need to do is explain why you think that a god has to be supernatural. Nothing says that. Atheism says no gods exist. That's wrong.

[quote]Can you name a known god which does not include supernatural qualities?[/quote]

Yes. I can name countless examples. All I have to do is name two. One a literal person and one an object. Kim Jong-Un and gold.

@AkioTsukino

[quote]Only one thing qualifies anything as a god. Might.[/quote]

Bad definition. Again, it's [i]so[/i] open-ended that it becomes meaningless and i think you can prove that to yourself.
Using your definition, tell me what or who can be excluded from godhood.
If "Might" is the only relevant characteristic that makes a god a god, what then is [i]not[/i] encompassed by that definition?


[quote]. Atheism says no gods exist. That's wrong.[/quote]

lol well i disagree. But also it doesn't have to be a true statement for the atheist to [i]believe[/i] that bout the world.

[quote]Yes. I can name countless examples. All I have to do is name two. One a literal person and one an object. Kim Jong-Un and gold.[/quote]

Well actually all you have to do is name ONE...which you haven't done here.
Kim Jong-Un is a terrible example for your case because the internal propaganda does indeed assign him supernatural powers.
[b][i]"Teachers explained to them that the Kims could read the minds of everyday citizens, prompting them to think well of the tyrants."[/i][/b]
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/north-korean-children-told-kim-22634989

[i][b]"After releasing images this weekend of a smiling Kim on top of Mount Paektu, an active volcano on the China and North Korea border, the nation's state media said the "peerlessly illustrious commander" can control "the nature"[/b][/i]
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/12/11/not-even-north-koreas-kim-jong-un-can-control-weather/939609001/

Sorry, that's an example just like Jesus where a man is said to have supernatural powers.

As for Gold...well that's not actually an example, is it? I asked you to name [i]known gods[/i] which posses no supernatural abilities.
So unless you can point me to people who worship gold [i]itself[/i] as a god then you're simply begging the question. That is to say, your example of gold is assuming your conclusion rather than being an example to support it.

[i]P.S. Do please weigh in on my most recent evolution thread. I was inspired by your "I Believe We Were Created: Change My Mind" thread.[/i]

@Pikachu [quote]Bad definition. Again, it's so open-ended that it becomes meaningless and i think you can prove that to yourself.[/quote]

A god is anything or anyone deified. If it isn't deified it isn't a god. The qualities, agency, powers and influence of the thing itself aren't what makes the god, the veneration is.

If two people observe a mountain one of them may make the mountain their god and the other may not. It wasn't a god until it was deified. It becomes a god, or God, to the person and in a general sense. It would be a god if the worshiper had other gods of more significance to that person, or God if it was placed above those other gods in significance. To those who don't venerate the mountain it becomes a god due to it being venerated by others, but it doesn't become their god. The mountain may become other people's God or god as well.

Godhood is in the eye of the beholder. It is dependent only upon the veneration it receives. It doesn't require or result in any special qualities outside the respect and veneration, the might attributed to it by the one who's deity it becomes.

You keep saying you understand that there are other things that are worshipped but then you make the mistake of assuming that in order for that veneration or worship to be proper it has to be applied to a supernatural being that has control over human affairs, or whatever. It doesn't. It can, but it doesn't have to.

To say it's meaningless is foolish even if you were right about it because of the effects it has upon the culture various peoples around the globe live in. God, whether real or imagined, has a tremendous effect on Western culture, for example. Allah's influence upon Islamic cultures is similar, and Kami's effect on Japan.

[quote]Using your definition, tell me what or who can be excluded from godhood.[/quote]

Anything and anyone. If no people, and no spirit creatures attributed or had attributed godhood, as you call it, to Jehovah, or Jesus or Zeus or the cross, then none of those would have been or remain God or gods. They would go on just as they had before. Same powers, same agency, same qualities etc. but they wouldn't be gods or anyone's God anymore.

[quote]If "Might" is the only relevant characteristic that makes a god a god, what then is not encompassed by that definition?[/quote]

The attribution of might is subjective. It's up to the one attributing it. To some Eric Clapton is a guitar god. To others he isn't. He doesn't like being seen in that way but it isn't up to him.

[quote]lol well i disagree. But also it doesn't have to be a true statement for the atheist to believe that bout the world.[/quote]

I certainly don't think so, but we are talking about how the word is used. Its dictionary definition. Does atheism mean rejecting gods? Perhaps for some. Is atheism disbelief, as in no faith or trust in gods? Probably to most, but they fail to understand they can have gods without realizing it. Is it lack of belief, as in agnostic and uncertain? Sure, that's a reasonable conclusion.

It's sort of like love. You can't tell someone else that what they feel isn't love just because it doesn't subscribe to your or anyone else's standards. People have different ways of feeling love. Maybe that's why in recent history they've come up with all of these variations in title. Words and charts that describe the particular brand of atheism you most likely adhere to. I just skip all of that nonsense and say unbeliever or believer.

[quote]Well actually all you have to do is name ONE...which you haven't done here.

Kim Jong-Un is a terrible example for your case because the internal propaganda does indeed assign him supernatural powers.[/quote]

That's an excellent point. Nice work. I didn't bother to look closely at that because it isn't my requirement, it's yours. It's irrelevant to me. If God created us and we scattered over the globe from Babel then we would have taken those beliefs with us. But we could also have just made them up, and they intermingled and spread of their own accord, so it's a weak argument either way.

Moses and Jesus were mortal men. Well, you can argue that they both had supernatural powers and that is sort of true, but they were given those by Jehovah's holy spirit. So, the prophets and Moses and the disciples performed supernatural acts. They did it with God's force.

In the dictionary under God, as a definition it reads: "an adored, admired, or influential person." You can argue that and say it's an ironic application but what is it based upon? What attributes does the ironic application suggest? Might.

It's impossible to convince a militant atheist of any of this and what would be the point? I like to observe their reaction, though. It tells me about their beliefs.

[quote]As for Gold...well that's not actually an example, is it? I asked you to name known gods which posses no supernatural abilities.[/quote]

I can't. You won't accept it. I already have. Eric Clapton. Frodo Baggins. Sumerian kings like Tammuz in the Bible, were deified upon their death. Roman emperors; the early Christians were persecuted because they didn't worship the Roman Emperors. Japanese royal family. Some of these probably were thought to have supernatural powers, but that's only - ha - natural.

Gold? The golden calf. Exodus 20:23: "Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold."

[quote]P.S. Do please weigh in on my most recent evolution thread. I was inspired by your "I Believe We Were Created: Change My Mind" thread.[/quote]

I looked all over for it and couldn't find it. If you can point me to it or link to it I would be happy to weigh in.